Can you identify this dahlia? Post NOIDs here forum: Sorting the Reds 2

 
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ImageIslander
May 2, 2012 6:27 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
I have been calling this one "Skywalker" I think I got it at Connells before they closed. It putzes along form year to year, never doing great and stuck in some out of the way left over corner. I think it is sometimes fimbriated though it doesn't show in this picture.Thumb of 2012-05-03/Islander/8bc624 The flower is 3-4", stems a bit weak, but color is bright. Makes a decent filler in mixed bouquets. I guess I am not very enthusiastic about it am I? But I liked it when the fimbriations showed more.
Noni
Pay attention. Be astonished.Tell about it.
~ Mary Oliver
ImageIslander
Oct 22, 2012 9:12 AM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
Thumb of 2012-10-22/Islander/0e4eb0 It wAas A GOOD YEAR for Skywalker this year and is back on my favorites list!
Noni
Pay attention. Be astonished.Tell about it.
~ Mary Oliver
ImageIslander
Oct 22, 2012 9:14 AM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow

Noni
Pay attention. Be astonished.Tell about it.
~ Mary Oliver
[Last edited Jan 1, 2013 12:00 PM CST]
Quote | Post #920845 (3)
Imageteddahlia
Oct 22, 2012 9:29 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Skywalker was in the grab bag of dahlias when we first grew dahlias over 20 years ago. We did not dig it for about 4 years and it always lived through the winter without problems. It makes lots of tubers and certainly is a good cut flower. It has mixed form as the petals have notches. I believe it was named after Luke Skywalker of Star Wars.
Imagehonnat
Oct 22, 2012 12:38 PM CST
St. Paul, MN
Nice color on Skywalker!

Ted, I have always wondered - Are petal notches on Informal Decorative dahlias always a deduction for form in competition? I realize it would be for FD; but always wondered if it is for ID. Dr. John E Kaiser is an example of a great dahlia; but I always wondered if it would show well with the notched petals. The notches are probably not quite deep enough for it to be "lacinated"; but still notched. I also tried "Twister" for the first time this year. Again, great size and vigorous dahlia; but it did have notches on the petal tips. With all 3 of these dahlias (Skywalker, Kaiser and Twister) - I think the notches add to the overall appeal of the dahlia.

The ADS classification guide does say that FD ray florets are preferably round; but nothing is mentioned with ID dahlia ray florets.
Imageteddahlia
Oct 22, 2012 1:44 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Whether it is in the book or not, dahlias in informal decorative are heavily penalized for notched petals here in the Northwest. One senior judge that I know despises notches on petals. He always something like " You can put anything you want into bouquet but at a show the flowers must be judged according to the ADS guidelines." I am sure he would also say something like: "Pretty is not one of the judging characteristics." I personally feel that judges do generally like "pretty" dahlias especially if the colors are bright.

Dr. John E Kaiser must get the notches in warm weather as I judged one last year that was outstanding.
Imagehonnat
Oct 22, 2012 3:31 PM CST
St. Paul, MN
Are there other ADS guidelines besides what is in the ADS classification book? (other details in a judges handbook?)

It is a bummer that there is not a place for these dahlias. The notched tips are not deep enough to classify as a "Lacinated" dahlia; but don't fit the ideal criteria for ID either. J Kaiser is such a great BRIGHT dahlia with healthy green foliage and strong stems. I hardly need to tie it.

I noticed it did win a blue with notched tips here in a Minnesota show. Other years I have seen it with a red ribbon and no competition. I figured it was because of the notched tips. I have noticed it is winning in central states more than the coasts. I generally think of those as warmer zones. Most photos i see online show it with notched tips.I suppose it would help if it's case if it had uniformly notched tips. I looked through some of my old photos and saw that sometimes it would have about 50% of the petals with notches and 50% without.
Imageteddahlia
Oct 22, 2012 5:56 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
The informal decorative standard needs to be re-written. Historically, it was a class for fully double dahlias that did not fit well into the other classes. It was revised to make twisted petals a requirement and that is a mistake. It needs to go back to it's origins.and twisted petals are just fine but not a requirement just as slightly notched petals are fine but not a requirement. Examples of dahlias that should be ID are semi cactus types that do not revolute the required 25%. They can have outstanding form but are not SC or FD. Camano Cloud comes to mind. It used to win best in show awards as a semi cactus. They put the 25% in the SC definition and it seldom wins now. Put it in ID where it would win again. ID entries in the smaller flowers are way down these days. Why have a class and very few entries? Expand the definition to include more flowers and you will get more entries. The only exception to this is in the giant class where judges liberally put most giant flowers into the ID class. It seems that they must think that most giants have twisty petals.
ImageIslander
Oct 22, 2012 7:33 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
Maybe I will stick with my cut flower genre so I can like what my customers and I like Smiling
Noni
Pay attention. Be astonished.Tell about it.
~ Mary Oliver
Imageteddahlia
Oct 22, 2012 9:11 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
There is not enough help given to dahlia growers about the relative merits of the varieties as cut flowers. The ADS needs to work on that. I believe in Holland they have cut flower trials where flowers are evaluated on such things as vase life, beauty, customer appeal, vigor and consistency and probably even more factors.
ImageMaryNZ
Oct 22, 2012 11:10 PM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

I think cut flower trials are a fantastic idea! I am trying to set things up here so that my daughters can sell cut flowers over the summer if there is no other work available. I have a ridiculous number of varieties because I cannot find information about what will keep in a vase. So we will be cutting the first blooms from each variety, counting days of vase life, and colour coding all the stakes, cutter and non-cutter. They will keep for shorter time as the season gets hotter, too, so we will need to double check later.
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
Imageteddahlia
Oct 23, 2012 9:41 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
We used to tell flower customers that dahlias look really good in a vase for about 3 days and that most people toss them out within a week. Dahlias excel as flower for special events that last no more than a day or two.
ImageIslander
Oct 26, 2012 2:10 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
Mary, I look for flowers with good sturdy stems, long enough stems, and thick petal substance. Also, no bigger then B size for most casual bouquets. The big ones are fine for events though where you want a very large eye catching arrangement. THen look at what colors your customers prefer. Pink is a hardsell at my stand...unless it is a hot pink with contrasting colors. I think a lot of it depends on the light yours will be seen in. Is your light "Yellow" or "Blue"? Our light is usually "Blue" up here in the NW..... And I think that is why pastel pinks don't move well. I read about the difference in light colors by someone talking about designing in the northwest a long time ago. Saturated yellow seems to glar-ry for what my customers want. But in the autumn they will buy almost every red/gold/orange bouquet I have! purples and oranges move too. I can sell purple/pink/coral in autumn especially if mixed with purple beautyberry and autumn leaves. Right now I am adding branches of mini crab apple or miniature guards on vines since it is harvest time.

Today my bouquets are having to compete with a jack o'lantern show and rain. Probably not going to sell many but some people will appreciate them anyhow. My plants are still spewing out flowers and now I hear we have no freeze predicted for weeks! Sales will still fall off so its hardly worth the effort. AND colors will fade and stems weaken. Hardly worth messing with but its like an addiction...and I have chrysanthemums coming in.

I would love to see cut flower trials too! At least some producers give a list of good cut flowers from what they sell. Its a starting point.


Noni
Pay attention. Be astonished.Tell about it.
~ Mary Oliver
ImageMaryNZ
Oct 26, 2012 2:40 PM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

Our light is yellower in Autumn, but I consider it to be somewhat yellow all year around. I have a lot of pinks! It is going to be really interesting to see how it all works out. One of the UK growers of cut flower Dahlias tells me he does best with waterlily Dahlias - so most of mine refuse to eye up this year!

Whatever happens, I should have a lot of flowers to enjoy.

If you have bluer light over there, it explains why a lot of people there are very enthusiastic about purple Dahlias. They usually don't look quite right here.
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
[Last edited Oct 26, 2012 2:41 PM CST]
Quote | Post #921858 (14)
Imageteddahlia
Oct 26, 2012 6:04 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
The colors of dahlias that sell do change over the years. We used to put together all pink bouquets that had pinks and blends of pink and white or yellow and that is what people wanted. The orange and red and yellow bouquets would not sell until September. Mixed bouquets seemed to sell well all the time and the customers of the mixed bouquets were men. We did not have very many dark, almost black dahlias in those days. I am told by Dan Pearson of Dan's Dahlias that he puts one black dahlia in a bouquet and people snap them up before other bouquets. He says the blacks ones make the colors of the others more intense and people like that.
ImageIslander
Oct 26, 2012 6:39 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
I like black dahlias too. I think of them as the shadows and pale ones as the bright light and they bring more depth to a bouquet. If you look at a large bouquet with these colors from a distance you will see what I mean. Hollyhill Black Widow, Karma Choc, and Black Satin are my favorites. THey are nice sizes for smaller bouquets. I think I Finally identified my big black one as "Black Monarch" which Accent sells, but we got it from Costco or one of the box stores about 2000 and my friend and i have kept it going since. Thumb of 2012-10-27/Islander/592fde ,Thumb of 2012-10-27/Islander/c54d44 . I am glad to finally have its name back on it! I also have Swan Island's Lights out but its a stiff little thing without much grace!
Thumb of 2012-10-27/Islander/e459df Lights Out,Thumb of 2012-10-27/Islander/cace1b Black Satin,Thumb of 2012-10-27/Islander/439d24 Karma Choc
Noni
Pay attention. Be astonished.Tell about it.
~ Mary Oliver
ImageMaryNZ
Oct 27, 2012 1:25 AM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

There is definitely a demand for the dark reds here, according to the local flower market, and I like them anyway. I am hoping and praying that Kenora Macop B and Arabian Night will sprout. They have very lazy tubers. They are the only "black red" ones I had last year, and I loved them. I have some new ones to try. Black Touch is slightly fimbriated. Chat Noir and Nuit D'Ete are cactus Dahlias. Sam Hopkins is described as "blackberry coloured" in the catalogue, so may be more towards purple - anyway, it is a waterlily type. Oh, and Danjo Doc - miniature dec, I think.

I quite like the look of your Lights Out, Noni, but then I have not tried working with it in a vase.
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
[Last edited Oct 27, 2012 1:54 AM CST]
Quote | Post #921935 (17)
ImageIslander
Oct 27, 2012 8:26 AM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
I had Black Touch this year and I quite like it! I picked it up at a Garden Center...the only one of my 4 I bought there to make me happy. II think it came with Red Hat (Which had open centers most of the season). Thumb of 2012-10-27/Islander/a8cc61
Thumb of 2012-10-27/Islander/c37a32
. I had forgotten that one! I didn't get a lot of flowers off it, but wIll move it to a better location next year.
Noni
Pay attention. Be astonished.Tell about it.
~ Mary Oliver
ImageMaryNZ
Oct 27, 2012 1:46 PM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

How did it last in a vase, Noni?
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
ImageIslander
Jan 1, 2013 12:11 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
Not a great last-er, but my plant was wimpy and in the shade of some of the biggest ones. Will try it again this year, probably in my personal garden. Should add a nice look among paler colors there, where no one will mind the green centers.
Noni
Pay attention. Be astonished.Tell about it.
~ Mary Oliver

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