CHAT AND WELCOME (ENERGY & POWER) forum: Welcome...Chat Away!

 
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ImageAguane
Apr 26, 2011 1:21 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
Lots of times we start a topic to talk about the price of gas, for instance, and soon we are talking about the best cheese to put on a medium rare burger.

That would be this forum! Chat away!
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
Imageweeds
Apr 26, 2011 4:11 PM CST
FL. Panhandle
Not all those who wander are lost.
Oh good! A place to talk about ALL this stuff...
I am really upset about the rise in oil prices as the reason is not lack of oil
but wall street gambling on it!!!
Talk with people around the world.
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ImageAguane
Apr 26, 2011 4:29 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
I know!
I used to work in commodities trading. From what I understood the grains and pork belly traders, etc. (for example) would hedge and buy in order to maintain an even balance in pricing and production so they could put an Armour hotdog on the market for the same price in Jan. 2010 and it would cost in June. 2010. Prices of the commodity fluctuated but the goal was a consistently priced hotdog.

I remember that plywood futures price fluctuations were a good indicator as to new home building trends. When plywood futures prices went up it meant there would be run on plywood used for new homes to be built in the nearing seasons.

With crude oil futures I think it may be the same scenario, though I'm not an expert. The oil futures traders are buying up the futures contracts in anticipation of rising demand in the future. Of course, gasoline will go up in the future but the price is being reflected at the pump now. I imagine gasoline will be even more expensive in a year, say. Of course, prices are regional, depending on delivery and refining costs, but, I think we in AZ got pretty used to seeing gas at the pump in the mid-$3.00. Now we're high $3.00 and into low $4.00... back to what it was about 18 months ago or so. What looked high and unusual then seems to be the norm now.

I remember $.19 a gallon -$.22 cents a gallon. The price of gasoline never goes down from what I can tell. And, Brazil and China are becoming very thirsty. = demand UP.

Just observations on my part.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
Imageweeds
Apr 26, 2011 4:45 PM CST
FL. Panhandle
Not all those who wander are lost.
yep, I remember those days when we could ride the little town I lived in all night for 50 cents worth of gas!
They are gambling that the Libya conflict will raise the prices if I understand it correctly which is a gamble in itself. Just heard on the news that the top 10 senators/representatives that receive money from the oil companies will not vote to stop subsidizing them unless we lower their base taxes! Clarification, only one of the top ten commented, the others hid their heads in the sand.
Talk with people around the world.
Visit Carpe diem and seize the day!
Also, Jigsaw Puzzles, Excel forum and tutorials.
ImageAguane
Apr 26, 2011 9:36 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
Connie,
It will be interesting to see how exactly this plays out. I was listening to Lawrence Kudlow on CNBC earlier. He said the alternative energy sources; fuel cell, solar, wind, bio-fuels will always play secondary to main fuel sources of nuclear, coal and oil. Probably true but nothing wrong with aspiring to reduce dependency on "imported" oil... thus reducing vulnerability to a embargo or access loss to strife in the Middle East, for instance.

Don't know what to say about the 10 senators/reps receiving lobby money from the oil companies... I wonder what they lobby for. Hmmmmmm. have to look into that.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
Steve812
Apr 27, 2011 1:00 PM CST
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ
I think "always" is a little short-sighted. We believe we might have a century or two of coal left. And maybe a century of natural gas. More, or less. Romans built aqueducts to last forever and many have lasted close to two thousand years. But Americans plan for the next financial quarter. That seems short-sighted to me. I hope I can be forgiven for thinking of "always" like the Indians of the Great Plains ... beyond the seventh generation to succeed us.

I think alternative energy forms make sense at the margins right now. Solar is great for peak shaving. Wind is financially attractive for base loading, or it would be if supply and demand were closer together. Who knows, maybe in three hundred years most of the Atlantic Ocean will be covered in algae farms?

As fossil fuels grow more scarce, alternative energy will grow ever more attractive. Eventually renewable sources will play a very significant role. Even the "evil" oil companies and their governmental minions need to adopt a sensible approach to renewable energy if they are to operate as primary energy companies well into the future.

As to the price of oil going down, it did in the early 1980s when Alaskan, North Sea, and Mexican sources of oil came on line. These fields were not OPEC fields, so OPEC lost some pricing leverage. I have heard it argued that the Reagan/Bush administration jawed the Saudis into pumping more oil in order to keep the price low (it fell from $20 to $10 per barrel in about 1984) and to keep the Soviets from making much money on the stuff, all in the service of breaking up the Soviet Union. The story makes sense, but I'm not sure how true it is.
ImageGardenGuyAZ
Apr 27, 2011 1:19 PM CST
Name: Alan
Chandler, AZ; 85225
Sunset Zone 13
I guess it depends on who you talk to, on whose to fault for high prices. Personally I don't think who the president has to much to do with where gas prices are or were:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Energy/How Did Oil Prices Get so...

http://newsbusters.org/node/12496

Alan
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched - they must be felt with the heart. ~Hellen Keller
[Last edited Apr 27, 2011 1:21 PM CST]
Quote | Post #637127 (7)
ImageAguane
Apr 27, 2011 1:31 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
I guess I was speaking to the general energy policy of the United States. Up to a president and his/her cabinet to direct the policy. Funds directed to various initiatives change from pres. to pres. If the energy policy is strong and well defined - like reduce imported crude from 60% to 30% by 2020 would be a policy goal. How it's enforced could vary from pres. to pres. A variation may include reduction in funding for natural gas mining operations and an increase in funding for more nuclear plant sites. I'm just wondering how strong our overall energy policy is.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
ImageAguane
Apr 27, 2011 1:58 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
Steve,
The scenario of the 1980s you point out may be a good example to reflect upon when considering the value of increasing domestic production. I wonder if, today, we could lower the price of gas at the pump if we increased domestic production. I guess that's the argument of the day but there are lots of "interests" pulling every which way as to pros and cons.

I remember hearing that story about Bush Admin. working with the Saudi's to pump more oil, too. Good example of oil being used as a weapon, of sorts. .. if true, as you point out.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
ImageAguane
Apr 27, 2011 6:27 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
Just wondering what you guys think. I read the yuricareport.com article re Bush 43 filling the SPR up to capacity. I think the president is tasked with keeping it full or at least work at keeping it full. The article doesn't mention the invasion of Iraq. I think I once read that the Bush administration believed oil supplies/imporating would be threatened by the war/action so early on in the war/invasion they began to fill the reserve. I think it took a long time and usually takes a long time to fill the reserves. Depending how many barrels are needed to bring it to capacity it can take years to fill. I know the article mention at date 9/11/2001 but it doesn't give the significance of the date.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
AlohaHoya
Apr 27, 2011 7:42 PM CST
Name: Carol Noel
Hawaii (near Hilo)
It's all about choices.
Pickens had good ideas...but his movtives are dubious. He bought up tons of property with suspected Natural Gas and is bent on that becoming our alternative. FINE. As long as you don't frack to extract it....

There is so much, I think, to do and so much that can be done...but it isn't very popular and might not get one elected by the people who have to tighten their belts. And if you alienate the oil industry...they may not give you the money to run again... Oh...what a tragedy!!! Glare

Leap. The net will appear.
ImageAguane
Apr 27, 2011 7:58 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
So true, Carol. I was just looking into the fracking policy/origins/ and while the final product (natural gas energy) may be a "clean" burner, the extraction is not. Chemicals are really wreaking havoc on drinking water sources in PA, NM, CO, OH ....
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
[Last edited Apr 27, 2011 7:59 PM CST]
Quote | Post #637571 (12)
AlohaHoya
Apr 27, 2011 8:43 PM CST
Name: Carol Noel
Hawaii (near Hilo)
It's all about choices.
They are playing havoc with 1) the world and 2) peoples lives but $$ rules and no one want to commit fund raising suicide by opposing it. No one...on any side of the aisle...

Sorry...will get back on subject. Promise.
Leap. The net will appear.
ImageAguane
Apr 27, 2011 8:49 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
We chat... here, this forum. There is no subject. Big Boom, chaos.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
ImageBoopaints
Apr 27, 2011 10:33 PM CST
Name: Becky Capps
Phoenix, AZ 85022
finding joy one day at a time!
Happy New Cubit to you Susie!
:biggrin:
ImageAguane
May 13, 2011 9:42 PM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
Anyone have some "big boom, chaos" stuff to fret about?

I know.

Question: Does anyone have one day a week where they commit to not drive a vehicle?

I do. I have a least one day a week that I do not drive. I been doing this for years. It's a Jewish thingy. A Sabbath deal. It's great! I love it!... might spend the day in the garden tending to my compost... creating energy, of sorts.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
AlohaHoya
May 13, 2011 11:37 PM CST
Name: Carol Noel
Hawaii (near Hilo)
It's all about choices.
We live about 18 miles from town...with nec. stops along the way (Post Office, Health Food Store etc.). I TRY to go once a week... (gas got up to 4.49Gal...it's down to 4.33 now...). Twice a week, max. DH goes once a week, or maybe 0 times or maybe 3. Hard to tell what he needs for his shop. It IS really a conscious decision...we discuss it ad nauseum....compromising when we can. .... Can't imagine those who have to go into town everyday 'just to shop'[....gag!!!
Leap. The net will appear.
ImageAguane
May 14, 2011 10:22 AM CST
Name: Susie
Phoenix AZ
"Going to town to shop" is not a pleasure for me. Though I must say that now that I'm retired I can do those tasks during the week and avoid the craziness of the weekends.

I forgot. When I said I save one day a week where I don't drive I was thinking of my schedule when I've worked over the last 40 years. Now that I'm retired I can actually get by with driving every fourth day. Even better for me. I can walk to Target, bookstore, Pei Wei, a few places.

Yikes! Carol~ $4.49 a gal. I think I paid $3.77 for premium at Costco yesterday. If you check out the "GasBuddy" link at the right side of the home panel you can check the average price by state. There is also a "heat map" that shows the states colorized by most to least expensive.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --Albert Einstein
~ All Things Plants, SOUTHWEST GARDENING ~Cubits.org ENERGY & POWER
Imagebsavage
May 14, 2011 10:52 AM CST
Name: Brenda
Dolores, Colorado
Well, as we only have one car now, I have many days that I don't drive! I ride my bike to work quite often (whether I want to or not, LOL!). Tony just got the motorcycle out and rolling so he can take that to work, that sure saves on gas. So, apparently, not only is neccesity the mother of invention, it is also the mother of saving!
AlohaHoya
May 14, 2011 11:09 AM CST
Name: Carol Noel
Hawaii (near Hilo)
It's all about choices.
I detest shopping...I don't mind buying. Thumbs up

Here, in the islands, there is a lot afoot to produce biofuels...if something should happen re: oil/gasoline we would be SOL. Much interest afoot to grow/buy locally mostly by newcomers to the islands....the locals don't want to be farmers. I think our next car is going to be a Smart Car or even a converted motorcycle... The locals just by the biggest pickups they can, put on FAT loud tired, jack up the body and tint the windows. I don't get how they can afford it!!!!
Leap. The net will appear.

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