...the rest of the story. forum: PS The Hoyan Vol. 11, #6

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Aug 31, 2011 6:27 PM CST
Name: Carol Noel
Hawaii (near Hilo)
It's all about choices.
Just read this most recent 'issue'. My gosh...I could almost hear the boards rattle on her floor as they wrote that!!! Goodness, that woman is so angry and hates just about everyone! I am really sorry.

To try to straighten out ANY questions about ID using her reasoning/logic is impossible. How many of us can run to our copy of the Herbarium Sheet and/or see the type sheets and her explanations are so long and convoluted. Why should we believe what she says anymore than we believe anyone else? Because she is a very accomplished self taught (not degreed) taxonomist. She really knows her stuff...but I can barely follow her reasoning. If she would cut out all the verbage pertaining to TG and RDK and other gossipy trivia, her meaning could be much better understood.

And I don't believe it is really pertinent to site, as an identifier, the color of flowers - either corollas or coronas - as anyone who has been around hoyas long enough realizes that the color of flowers is NOT stable. The color can vary from umbel to plant to collection to environment to nutrition to....to.... Yes, the collectors often mention color in their descriptions but they likely had not experienced the wide number of specimins all of us have seen. I had a H. erythrostemma (sold as having all white flowers) which bloomed first with deep pink coronas and secondly with pink flowers and finally all white. The same umbel.

At some point, when learning the different subsp. of H. australis, I was told that of the two, ssp. australis and ssp. tenuipes, one of them bloomed in the spring and the other in the fall. Does anyone else remember this? I am pretty sure the ssp. tenuipes blooms in the spring (signaled, in Australia) when the days start getting longer and the rains will soon be coming. In one of CBs rants she talks about this.

It really pains me that she is so bitter and nasty about Dale and Ted. Not EVERYthing anybody does is 100% correct and Ms. Burton has made her share of errors. Dale and Ted have done SO much to put Hoyas right up there with Orchids and Roses! She resents their priviledges earned while in the military which they took advantage of to collect hoyas. Many hoyas we have in our collections were collected by them. They may have flown cattlecar (I have taken those types of flights too) but the accomodations were even more rustic! Camping in the pouring rain; the mosquitos; the leaches; the humidity;the discomfort....(actually, it is fun!! Cold beer never tasted so good!!!). I think she has made her point that she doesn't like them. But honestly, she aught to write a new script because she has told these same stories for so long, in almost every PSTH issue, they are getting tired.

It is such a pity she can't play nice. CB would make an awsome addition to Cubits but I'm afraid her present goal is to just destroy people, not grow hoyas. I am a victim of Spike on Garden Web who kicked me off GW for defending Ms. Burton and asking him not to kick HER off. I got the boot for that. I would welcome being able to learn about hoya nomenclature from CB.

Leap. The net will appear.
Aug 31, 2011 6:46 PM CST
Name: Dee Enslow
Chipley, FL (panhandle)
You know you have to wonder what really makes a person so bitter in life. It just can't be all centered around TG and Dale, at least I wouldn't think so, but I don't know her so maybe so. Just seems a shame to have someone so mad at the world all the time.

Aug 31, 2011 7:38 PM CST
Name: Carol Noel
Hawaii (near Hilo)
It's all about choices.
I wonder, Dee, about that too. She says she is defending the consumer and is on the Crusade for the Truth re: hoyas...and if that is true, why wouldn't she answer Ted's email 'bout a year ago when he asked some questions about H. schneei that she would have the answers to in order to solve a big question: is what we had in our collections from David really H. schneei? Important enough question that Ted went off to Pohnipe to collect it again....and he did and it is different from what I have as schneei. What I have is H. leucaroda (my spelling is off but I am too tired to look it up Sad ).

I think Ms. Burton is wrong about H. odorata and H. cembra. RDK published H. cembra from an unpublished description and type sheet which, to date as far as anyone knows is still not re collected. RDK and Ted Green both say it is H. odorata. I would like to know her reasons for thinking they are wrong.
Leap. The net will appear.
Sep 1, 2011 9:48 AM CST
Carol, you and the rest of us, too, know that what goes around comes around. I am a strong advocate of what you sow you reap. I also believe our words can carry life or death in them. There is an underlying cause and try as all might, we probably won't ever know what that is. History has shown that an awful lot of otherwise good people have one tiny thing that goes wrong in their psyche and they become violent people, some so much that history records their atrocious deeds. As I have said before, I feel so sorry for people who go thru life alienating everyone around them. They become lonely and embittered which just pushes them deeper into their own dark space. I truly do feel sorry for her, and I am completely aware that she doesn't want or need my compassion and would lambast me for trying! Wanting to know the whys from her probably will never happen unless she has a radical miraculous change in her life!
Sep 1, 2011 10:13 AM CST
Name: Carol Noel
Hawaii (near Hilo)
It's all about choices.
You are so right, Randy. It's only us here on the ground trying to 'fix everything and make it right'... Thanks for that!!! Big Grin
Leap. The net will appear.
Sep 1, 2011 7:20 PM CST
The only reason I said all that is I have been down this same road so many times and being a fixer myself I totally understand where you are coming from. That's just the hippie in me now speaking, 'whatever man, you know'! You are good to want to try to help her, Carol so just send a whole bunch of positive energy toward her. Then use your expertise to tell the rest of us how you see things differently cuz there are some of us who need the right info. You really are a voice we listen to!

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