GENERAL CHAT forum: Stand your ground

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Apr 13, 2012 2:22 PM CST
Name: Jerry
Salem, IL
The recent events in Florida have brought to light how right-wing politicians can easily be manipulated by the NRA. Even the left-wingers will vote for idiotic laws in order to placate the gun nuts. My confusion over the Florida Stand Your Ground Law is exactly whom is meant to be the protected person. An example would be X has a gun, Y has a baseball bat. Y is on a public sidewalk standing still. X approaches him and draws his gun. Y approaches X and scrambles his brains with the bat. Which one has the right to stand his ground.

It appears to me that the dead victim had as much right to protect himself as the shooter did.

This court case, if it ever comes to trial, could be a landmark victory for either side of the issue. To justify the white majority to kill any minority class person they choose or to define the concept of self protection.

The link below is to the actual statute involved for those with inquiring minds. Adobe reader may be required since many government documents are presented in the PDF format. (click 'view entire chapter')
[Last edited Apr 13, 2012 2:24 PM CST]
Quote | Post #855469 (1)
Apr 28, 2012 1:13 PM CST
Name: Charlie
Who was white
Both were African American
Apr 28, 2012 3:02 PM CST
Name: Jerry
Salem, IL
I believe Zimmerman was half white/half latino. In that instance, the color of the shooter was not the point. In my opinion, and it is simple at best, the various gun laws are geared for the white majority to protect themselves from blacks. The one thing which caught my eye a few years ago in Missouri was the CC permits were issued by the local sheriffs. I would liked to see how many permits were issued to both the whites and blacks. In the St. Louis and E.St. Louis area, the blacks just steal the guns or buy them from a crooked gun dealer.

The "stand your ground law" only makes it easy to kill someone you do not like and get away with it under the "I was scared" provisions. Hopefully, a bunch of the gun nuts will hit the panic button and begin blasting each other. That scenario is bound to happen sooner or later but, most likely, it will occur in a church or public meeting where a lot of innocent people will suffer.

I do not have a problem with guns except for the fact they can encourage deadly force in a spur of the moment situation. CC is a bad joke. If one has the balls to walk around like Bat Masterson they should not be ashamed to advertise it. I say force them to carry the guns in an external holster so all can see they are armed. I don't even like plainclothes police officers with concealed weapons. Wear the uniform and pack the heat. Guns can be color coordinated to match the outfit. There was a nutty woman, a congressperson I believe, waving a pink gun around and pointing it at people.

In my former military days in an armor battalion, we had chest holsters similar to the ones the pilots had and may still use. One does not even need a large belt.

I just found an entry on a website saying Zimmerman had black roots (no pun intended) thru an Afro-Peruvian Great-Grandfather. His actual parents were not mentioned.
[Last edited Apr 28, 2012 3:10 PM CST]
Quote | Post #862241 (3)
Jun 27, 2012 4:58 PM CST
Name: Jerry
Salem, IL
Texas man gets 40 years for going to his neighbor's property and killing him for playing music too loudly. He claimed the right to kill under "stand your ground". Who in the world lets these nut cases own a gun?
Jun 27, 2012 5:13 PM CST
Name: Dorothy (LaVonne) Mitchell
Somerset, KY

I have grown up with the belief that volunteers of the neighborhood watch programs could not carry weapons just radios and as we progressed...cell phones to contact law enforcement. I also believed that there was a member or members of law enforcement who patrolled these areas and also guided the volunteers on their behavior.
Well, lo and behold, my beliefs were in error. It seems that the rules are varied throughout the country. Often the police are not connected with the program. The rules are also varied...maybe its the times but most carry a weapon..a gun. The volunteers are not trained, just signed up and turned out into the now we have neighbors shooting neighbors who look suspicious. We now have to be careful of visitors to our homes, they could become targets.
I don't know the solution, I just don't want to be part of the problem, and still be able to protect my family from those who are too quick to shoot and ask questions later. Gods help us all!

Tahlmorra lujhala mei wiccan
(The fate of a man rests always within the hands of the gods)
Jun 27, 2012 7:44 PM CST
Name: Jerry
Salem, IL
I am a transplanted Hoosier and was surprised when Indiana passed a state law allowing a citizen to use deadly force against a law enforcement officer in cases of the officer committing unlawful acts against the citizen. Talk about a case fraught with peril. One had better have a van load of nuns as witnesses before capping a cop.
Jul 2, 2012 3:59 PM CST
Name: Jerry
Salem, IL
There is an unspoken undercurrent involving guns and self-protection which revolves around ethnic groups, whether it is Blacks or Latinos. Some of it is justified and some is just racial prejudice. I saw a news item from our local radio station/internet concerning crimes in housing projects in East St. Louis, IL which would be predominately Black since the city is predominately Black.

This is the murder rate in the projects from 2000-2010 times the per capita national average.

Roosevelt Homes 12x.
Gompers Homes 30x.
John Deshields Project 54x.

Google East St. Louis crime to find the statistics for all crimes. It is astounding.

It is not difficult to see why the general public is increasingly leaning toward arming themselves.
Jul 7, 2012 8:55 AM CST
Name: Jerry
Salem, IL
Details are a bit sketchy and will come out as the case develops but the story so far has a man shooting at and hitting one child who was supposed to be riding his bicycle and setting off fire crackers. One of the news reports said there were three kids involved and the man just shot several times at the group. The child was not killed.

I can't say for certain but I heard the term "overenthusiastic block captain" and "several guns and a large amount of ammunition was removed from his home by the police". Race was not mentioned since it is immaterial anyway. He was charged with 6 felonies, according to the written report.

I cannot determine whether the problem is that gun possession makes people go a little nuts or that the nuts have too easy access to guns. Either way, it is time to rein in the NRA.

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