Discussion of Colors, Forms or Varieties forum: Dahlia Color Chart Mistakes

After 13 years online, Cubits.org is scheduled to be shut down. Please make sure you have the contact information for all your friends, and that you download whatever content you want from this site.

 
Page 4 of 4 • 1 2 3 4

Views: 51, Replies: 74 » Jump to the end
Imageteddahlia
Feb 7, 2013 12:25 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Thumb of 2013-02-07/teddahlia/57039d
One of the colors from the Chiba blue dahlia.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageDahliaGardener
Feb 7, 2013 12:50 PM CST
Name: Cynthia
BG, KY USDA Zone 6b
Sanity = Dirt under your nails...
Oh! Thank you!

I just may take colored umbrellas out to the garden; that sounds like fun (more fun in the garden, save my skin, have psychedelic dahlias Big Grin , sounds like a win-win-win situation!).

So, what are those things that are between each petal that are sometimes greenish/yellowish in color that look like they kind of hold the petals closed when the bud is just opeining? (You can see petals behind them as they poke out from them toward the center of the flower.)

I LIKE that blue color.

You keep talking about sampling flowers - what is that and how do you do it? Some of the dahlias would make REALLY great paint chips (I'm thinking of Cafe' au Lait and Janz Sunburst, which are coming to me this year, specifically).

Speaking of which, when I get my ADS handbook, how will I be able to tell which dahlias would complement those color tones (the faded antique-lace tones)?

I understand about Light Blends, but some of those are considerably more saturated with color and thus look 'brighter', if that's the word.

C DG

All gardening is landscape painting.
- William Kent

[Last edited Feb 7, 2013 1:19 PM CST]
Quote | Post #947841 (2)
Imagehonnat
Feb 7, 2013 4:06 PM CST
St. Paul, MN
DahliaGardener wrote:Oh! Thank you!

So, what are those things that are between each petal that are sometimes greenish/yellowish in color that look like they kind of hold the petals closed when the bud is just opeining? (You can see petals behind them as they poke out from them toward the center of the flower.) -

I believe the correct term for what you are talking about is a petal bract
DahliaGardener wrote:
You keep talking about sampling flowers - what is that and how do you do it? Some of the dahlias would make REALLY great paint chips (I'm thinking of Cafe' au Lait and Janz Sunburst, which are coming to me this year, specifically).

I just use Microsoft Paint. You open up the photo in Paint and there is a button called a "color picker" in the top toolbar. Click the color picker on a spot that looks like it represents the true color of the dahlia in your photo. Then, you can click on the "Edit Colors" button. That is where you will find the RGB numbers. You can enter those numbers in the website Ted referenced if you are interested in a name for your color.

DahliaGardener wrote:Speaking of which, when I get my ADS handbook, how will I be able to tell which dahlias would complement those color tones (the faded antique-lace tones)?

Again, the best reference I have for this is the Hollyhill web site that has the color chips downloaded. You can look through and see what color chip goes with your variety.
DahliaGardener wrote:
I understand about Light Blends, but some of those are considerably more saturated with color and thus look 'brighter', if that's the word.


Dahlias with color blends will still have chip numbers next to them in the ADS book. For example, Camano Pet has "Y19/OR4" . So, in theory, those are the colors that Camano Pet would typically exhibit.


Imageteddahlia
Feb 7, 2013 4:08 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
So, what are those things that are between each petal that are sometimes greenish/yellowish in color that look like they kind of hold the petals closed when the bud is just opeining? (You can see petals behind them as they poke out from them toward the center of the flower.) They are called "bracts". Dahlia flowers are down graded for having visible bracts. They are distracting.

Speaking of which, when I get my ADS handbook, how will I be able to tell which dahlias would complement those color tones (the faded antique-lace tones)?
Nope, the book is quite dry and technical with no pictures. Most light blends are listed without much detail as to their actual colors and if the exact colors are listed, you need a color chart to see the colors. When shopping for dahlias in certain colors, it is best to use the classification book as the first step but it is much more important to see a picture of the flower, Google the name of the flower with the word dahlia after it. Then select images and look a t several pictures of the variety.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageDahliaGardener
Feb 7, 2013 4:25 PM CST
Name: Cynthia
BG, KY USDA Zone 6b
Sanity = Dirt under your nails...
Thank you so much for all your help honnat and teddahlia!

I do use Google Images on a regular basis, but was hoping for a more standardized source not dependant on wonky lighting, time of bloom, focus, (the photographers bright pink shirt, maybe), etc. to see what things look like. I know, when I take pictures of my flowers, the pictures somehow don't ever come out exactly like what they are (boy that eye/brain combination camera - what a winner). So I always wonder exactly what I'm really going to get...especially when there is a HUGE scope of difference in images that show up for some varieties.

I will, definitely, be looking at Ted's color chips (I have done a little already). I will try your suggestion, too, honnat, with Paint, since sometimes I'm a little lost and I'd like to understand better what's being discussed about the colors.

Again, Thank you.

C DG
All gardening is landscape painting.
- William Kent

Imageteddahlia
Feb 7, 2013 4:25 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
"I just use Microsoft Paint. You open up the photo in Paint and there is a button called a "color picker" in the top toolbar. Click the color picker on a spot that looks like it represents the true color of the dahlia in your photo. Then, you can click on the "Edit Colors" button. That is where you will find the RGB numbers. You can enter those numbers in the website Ted referenced if you are interested in a name for your color."

I am glad you wrote the above instructions for Paint, a program nearly everybody has on their computer. I use an older full version of Photoshop and that is incredibly powerful but it comes with a steep learning curve. By the way, the color picker icon is an "eye dropper" in Paint and Photoshop.

By the way, the Paint program allows you to punch in the RGB numbers to see a color too. And it looks like the Paint program will let you crop pictures and re-size them to post on the internet.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageDahliaGardener
Feb 7, 2013 4:38 PM CST
Name: Cynthia
BG, KY USDA Zone 6b
Sanity = Dirt under your nails...
I tried it and it worked! Yay! Thank you so much!

I have this great picture of El Sol from the Canby festival first weekend that I looked at (wish I could upload, but I can't seem to do that successfully), and chose the spot I thought was the reddest. Amazingly, it is supposed to be Burnt Sienna, in the brown tones. I think that just supports the 'we all see color differently' idea. (I tried it again, and another color from one of the reddest areas of El Sol is called "Mandy" which is really nice, but still not red like I thought it would be.)

I see what you mean, now, when you talk about color mistakes...

C DG
All gardening is landscape painting.
- William Kent

Imageteddahlia
Feb 9, 2013 10:10 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
I am still trying to figure out an easy way to measure the color from multiple points on a picture and to average them to one color that may be very representative of the overall color of the flower. I would envision that a picture of a new dahlia could be taken and when the person taking it determines that it is a good representation of the color that the picture would be forwarded to a person who would determine the best color chips. That would take a lot of the subjectivity out of the process as the colors would be measured by the camera rather than the human eye.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
Imagehonnat
Feb 9, 2013 10:23 AM CST
St. Paul, MN
It would be nice if there was a program that could select a larger area of a flower and take an average for you. I'm not sure how the Paint program "dropper" works. I tried to zoom out of the photo before I took my "sample" hoping that it would take from a larger area that way. Probabaly wishful thinking as it likely takes from the same size area either way. Averaging is helpful.

I've kind of gotten hooked on the color sampling now that you've pointed it out. I would think it would be helpful in writing catalog descriptions of dahlias.
ImageMaryNZ
Feb 9, 2013 12:46 PM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

I can do this with Gimp (freeware). I think there is a plugin that cover averages an area in one step, but I can do it with border average by making a square selection over the flower, setting the border depth to half the width of the square, and getting the border average.

Thumb of 2013-02-09/MaryNZ/0428fa
Here I have made a 400x400 pixel selection over the flower. You can see where to find the border average tool among the maze of menus. I will set it to 200 pixels, not shown.

Thumb of 2013-02-09/MaryNZ/d7a6a4
Here you can see the area that was selected, and that the foreground colour now represents the average colour of that selection.

Thumb of 2013-02-09/MaryNZ/da91ec
Details available for the foreground colour include RGB and hex values.

Are we removing subjectivity? Probably not. We must subjectively decide whether our flower matches our photo, just as we must subjectively decide whether our flower matches our chip. However, it would be interesting to match a flower to a chip by eye, and its photo to a chip by colour sampling, and to compare results.
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
ImageMaryNZ
Feb 9, 2013 12:56 PM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

A bit surprising to discover that one's flower is beige! But that could come in handy...

One of the aspiring judges told a friend and me that Amorangi Pearl should have no trace of pink, and ours must be misnamed if they had pink in them at times (despite the photo in one of the best local catalogues showing hints of pink). We were told that Amorangi Pearl should be "a pure pearl colour". If that comes up again, I will be very tempted to say that it is actually beige.
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
Imageteddahlia
Feb 9, 2013 3:26 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
I believe the instructions I received to determine color was to go down halfway on the side of the bloom. Then you pluck that ray floret. If it is a solid color you check the center of that floret with the color chart.

In your color selection, you selected the entire center of the flower where there are both immature florets and deep shadows.

Using the ADS method, one would select some florets from halfway down the bloom and not include the deep shadows. The deep shadows probably have light reflected from the dahlia foliage and would not be representative of the color of the bloom. They may be more accurate in a neutral, color corrected light. and not show the brown and green colors.

However, as I look at the pictures of Amorangi Pearl, it has the yellowish center in all light conditions and it probably has quite a bit of yellow pigment in the white, especially on immature florets. The color I got:


Thumb of 2013-02-09/teddahlia/68720b
It is double Spanish white, a yellow color


Thumb of 2013-02-09/teddahlia/0cf187
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
[Last edited Feb 9, 2013 5:48 PM CST]
Quote | Post #948537 (12)
ImageMaryNZ
Feb 9, 2013 4:36 PM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

Hmmm. Isn't it delightful that we can choose between looking at flowers and looking at colour swatches?

That was Amorangi Pearl, though. Amorangi Joy is just a teensy bit yellower: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mary_on_flickr/8394244240/
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
ImageDahliaGardener
Feb 9, 2013 4:53 PM CST
Name: Cynthia
BG, KY USDA Zone 6b
Sanity = Dirt under your nails...
Ooh! Lemon colored! Pretty, mary! Your's too, Ted, it looks almost like Lemon Meringue Pie with the lemon in the middle and the white around it like that!

C DG
All gardening is landscape painting.
- William Kent

Imageteddahlia
Jul 18, 2019 6:45 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
http://rhscf.orgfree.com/
The RHS has published the RGB color values of the color chips. I suppose I could go to my version of the dahlia chart and find the RGB numbers and correlate them with the RHS chips.
Nope, that is project for the winter.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.

Page 4 of 4 • 1 2 3 4

« Back to the top
« Cubits.org homepage
« Growing Dahlias: cubit homepage
« Discussion of Colors, Forms or Varieties forum

You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Growing Dahlias:

A place to learn about dahlias, and a vibrant community of dahlia growers to ask, share and enjoy.

» Home
» Forums
» Articles
» Store
» Database
» FAQ
» Links

Cubit owner: Poochella

Admin team:

The Discussion Dahlia

'Unrecognized Form' Dahlias
Thumb of 2015-12-15/CCvacation/d189da
Click here to discuss the current dahlia flavor of the season!

Discussion of previous dahlias can be found here.