Discussion of Colors, Forms or Varieties forum: Purple Waterlliy Progress Reports

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Imageteddahlia
Sep 27, 2017 11:41 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
I started to write a posting that included all the information I have gathered this year on the quest for a purple waterlily. It would be very voluminous and I have decided to start a thread and to post the information in a series of postings that allows each subject to have some detail and perhaps a picture or two.

To bring people up to date, several of us have noticed the absence of purple waterlilies. Where are they? And why do we not have several? Several of us in Cubits are dahlia breeders and many have expressed a desire to breed dahlias. At least two of us, myself and Benny have been working on the purple waterlily in our breeding. Other people have declared that purple is their favorite dahlia color and want a purple waterlily. Cut flower people really need a purple waterlily for bouquets and designs and especially weddings. There is also an ongoing quest for really good white waterlily for both shows and cut flowers. There are more white ones than purple out there but much work needs to be done there also.

So the first subject to be discussed is whether or not there are purple waterlilies and if so what do they look like and where can I get them. I am going to post some pictures of purple waterlilies and discuss each of them. I know I will not be able to include all of them as I am not aware of them.

The first purple waterlily that old time show people talk about is Night Dream, originated by the late Cor Geerlings of Holland in 1990. It was sold briefly in the USA and could be bought directly from Mr. Geerlings. He was unusual in that he insisted all orders be paid for in currency and US dollars were just fine with him. We did that and grew Night Dream for one year and the tubers did not keep for us. I do remember it growing tall and healthy but have little recollection of it as this was about 1992 or so. We had only grown dahlias for few years and had no idea that there were no purple waterlilies.
Thumb of 2017-09-27/teddahlia/61ede1
Here is a picture of Night Dream courtesy of the National Collection in the UK. I do not know if the color is accurate as this photo looks red. However, since most purple dahlias come out as red in pictures, it may well be a nice purple. On the Geerlings website it is still being sold for 3.50 Euros. It is listed as growing 130 cm or 51 inches tall. I bet that with some persistence, one could acquire this dahlia here in the USA.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
[Last edited Sep 27, 2017 12:43 PM CST]
Quote | Post #1262789 (1)
Imageteddahlia
Sep 28, 2017 2:52 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Thumb of 2017-09-28/teddahlia/7296c2
O'Condah is purple waterlily cut flower. We grew it years ago and it was quite vigorous but the flowers were sloppy and not all that purple. Picture by David Brown. Picture at Dan's Dahlias is not accurate.
Thumb of 2017-09-28/teddahlia/87cc67
At Clack's Dahlias is purple waterlily that came to her labeled Bluetiful. It is not that. It is a shade of purple to some(Margaret and Ginger) and dark pink to me.
Thumb of 2017-09-28/teddahlia/98eba3
Bluetiful taken at Swan Island today.
Thumb of 2017-09-28/teddahlia/119b00
Now lets’ talk about what purple waterlilies may be introduced in the future. The most likely one is the purple sport of Hollyhill Black Widow. It has sported in at least three gardens and the sported stock at Clacks Dahlias looks exceptionally good and healthy. It was growing 6 feet tall under her shade cloth when this picture was taken.
The next one will be Keating's Lotus. Tomorrow.

We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
Imageteddahlia
Sep 29, 2017 12:46 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Thumb of 2017-09-29/teddahlia/8cdef3
Keating Lotus
Barry Willoughby of Canada has originated several dahlias. Blackberry Ripple is his most famous one. He has been using the moniker Keating for his recent intros. He lives not far from the Butchart Gardens north of Victoria B.C. I have been told by a couple of people that Barry saved seed from Hollyhill Leda and came up with a purple waterlily. I am in the process of obtaining stock of it and that is predicated on whether or not it makes tubers for the USA person who has offered to trade. Margaret and I have saved a few seeds from HH Leda(not a real good seed maker) but have concentrated more on it's seedpod sibling, HH Tigress. They are both pollen seedlings of Pam Howden. Margaret did cross Leda and Tigress and HH Serenity was the best seedling from that cross. And there were no purple seedlings from Leda or Tigress. There may be some hope that Keating Lotus will be sold in the future but probably not for the 2018 season.

I will continue this thread tomorrow.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageDillyDahlia
Sep 29, 2017 4:21 PM CST
Name: Tina
NY Zone 5b/6a
Flower Power!
Thank you for this thread. I learn something new with each new post.🌸
“Early to bed, early to rise, plant like hell...and fertilize!” P Allen Smith
Imageteddahlia
Sep 30, 2017 9:42 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
It is late in the day but here is the next post.
I know that Benny has a nice purple waterlily seedling and he is building up stock. It is a second year seedling and he has a few plants of it. He may post a picture of it.

The last show of the year for us was Roseburg on the 23rd. On the 21st Margaret was picking flowers for her arrangements and I was helping her. I cruised through the first year seedlings looking for some very small flowers to go into the arrangement that is no larger than 9 inches tall and wide. We had a rain and wind storm earlier in the week and many of our flowers had fallen into the rows. The first year seedlings were not tied up at all this year and they had been pretty well hammered by the storm. I looked down and there was a purple waterlily seedling almost lying on the ground. I was able to pick the flower and the stem had not yet gotten bent. I rushed back to Margaret and showed it to her and she was impressed. I put it into a show can to be shown on the 23rd. At the show two senior judges were scoring the seedlings. One judge was Christy Parks and the other was Cora Vandervelden. In this show, they have separate categories for first and second year seedlings and there were 15 or so entries in the first year class. The two judges selected the purple waterlily as the best seedling giving it a numerical score much higher than the other seedlings. It was placed on the head table where I took this picture:

Thumb of 2017-10-01/teddahlia/8d65c6

For those of you who are interested in the genetics of dahlias, this seedling is the seedling of a red waterlily and a bee selected the pollen. It is possible that the pollen came from Sandia Susan, an orange waterlily that was planted next to this red WL. The red waterlily had produced the year prior our orange waterlily(sort of waterlily) we call HH Sophia.
Getting back to the show, I was volunteered to judge best in show and during that process our Cubits friend Amanda visited the show. I dragged her over to the purple waterlily and probably impressed her
as being a raving, over the top dahlia enthusiast as I showed her the flower.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageIslander
Oct 1, 2017 2:31 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Warren, Oregon
retired flower farmer
That looks lovely! I hope it has strong genes and no purple curse!


Salish Dahlias
ImageIslander
Oct 1, 2017 2:36 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Warren, Oregon
retired flower farmer
I found this little guy in my garden labeled Hollyhill Black Widow and it was from Christie Parks. Thumb of 2017-10-01/Islander/a31c26
Thumb of 2017-10-01/Islander/a82faf

Is this a mislabel or a mutation? The flower and plant are shorter and smaller then HH Black Widow. The color is quite pretty.

Salish Dahlias
Imageblown_dry
Oct 1, 2017 2:38 PM CST
Name: Amanda
CA Redwood Coast - Zone 9b
DahliaAddict.com
There was a HH Black Widow at the show that I would swear was purple. I asked about it, but no one (the one random person I asked) seemed to think it looked different, so I wrote it off as indoor lighting.
[Last edited Oct 1, 2017 2:41 PM CST]
Quote | Post #1263213 (8)
Imageblown_dry
Oct 1, 2017 2:40 PM CST
Name: Amanda
CA Redwood Coast - Zone 9b
DahliaAddict.com
I love to meet fellow over-the-top dahlia enthusiasts, Ted. :) What a good find and a good story.
Imageteddahlia
Oct 1, 2017 4:47 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
blown_dry wrote:There was a HH Black Widow at the show that I would swear was purple. I asked about it, but no one (the one random person I asked) seemed to think it looked different, so I wrote it off as indoor lighting.

I bet that Ginger Clack brought one of the purple Black Widow flowers to the Roseburg show. I did not even look at the WL entries for some reason. She has no regular Black Widow, only the sport.

We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
Imageblown_dry
Oct 1, 2017 4:49 PM CST
Name: Amanda
CA Redwood Coast - Zone 9b
DahliaAddict.com
I knew it!!! It was a lovely dark purple.
Imageteddahlia
Oct 1, 2017 4:49 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Islander wrote:I found this little guy in my garden labeled Hollyhill Black Widow and it was from Christie Parks. Thumb of 2017-10-01/Islander/a31c26
Thumb of 2017-10-01/Islander/a82faf

Is this a mislabel or a mutation? The flower and plant are shorter and smaller then HH Black Widow. The color is quite pretty.



Black Widow has sported to purple in more than one garden. I do know that in Ginger Clack's garden(under shade cloth) it was 6 feet tall.

We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageIslander
Oct 1, 2017 6:38 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Warren, Oregon
retired flower farmer
Next year I will give it a chance to grow to 6' tall then.
Salish Dahlias
Imageteddahlia
Oct 1, 2017 6:55 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
It is entirely possible that since a sport is the loss of genetic material that when a sport happens in different gardens that that different genes are lost along with the genes that make the flower black red. So using this theory, Ginger Clack's sport may be taller than your sport because of different genes that were lost along with the color genes. In dahlias since there are 8 genes for each "trait" , when one is lost another is there to take it's place. Flowers can sport in many ways other than a change in color. In this case, it may have sported to taller as my Black Widow is only 4 feet tall. Or maybe the shade cloth is the reason.

In apples and oranges, the growers look for sports that occur on just one limb of a plant. The red delicious apple used to be a mostly green apple but on a tree a branch appeared with mostly red apples. Almost all of the navel orange varieties are sports. And that makes sense as navel oranges have no seeds.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageBenny101
Oct 1, 2017 7:34 PM CST
Greenville MI - zone 5b
I have a purple sport of HH Black Widow however mine is also quite short Noni , the plants are only about knee high and just starting to bloom now ( bloomed very late last season also
Here is my purple sport with normal bloom of Black Widow
Photo from 2016
Thumb of 2017-10-02/Benny101/28588d
ImageBenny101
Oct 1, 2017 7:50 PM CST
Greenville MI - zone 5b
Seedling 16-03 is on my " Pride and Joy " list . A very nice surprise last season to see that I am headed in the right direction with my WL program . A bee pollinated seedling of a " Sandia " variety . I was quite worried last year as when I dug the small tuber clump it started to get soft and mushy right away , I opted to throw the mushy clump into a two gallon pot of moist potting mix and was rewarded with sprouts a week or two later , so I kept the darn thing alive all winter taking cuttings periodically , many of them also survived as I planted out three nice plants , several cuttings and several pot tubers . Grows to around 20-24" high and actually looks really nice grown in a tomato cage , could have better stems but makes lots of blooms
16-03
Thumb of 2017-10-02/Benny101/75fbdf

Thumb of 2017-10-02/Benny101/ba8a7e

You can see the back side in this photo
Thumb of 2017-10-02/Benny101/78b8d0
Thumb of 2017-10-02/Benny101/d39571
ImageIslander
Oct 1, 2017 10:22 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Warren, Oregon
retired flower farmer
Its looking very nice, Benny! It has better depth then my mutated Black Widow. I hope yours keeps well this winter but maybe you better throw some in pots of potting soil again just in case...
Salish Dahlias
ImageCCvacation
Oct 3, 2017 5:04 AM CST
Name: CC
PA
Your purple HHBW has a virused leaf peeking out when you enlarge the image, Benny. What a bummer. Might be why it is knee-high and only now blooming.
CC
ImageBenny101
Oct 7, 2017 8:08 AM CST
Greenville MI - zone 5b
CCvacation wrote:Your purple HHBW has a virused leaf peeking out when you enlarge the image, Benny. What a bummer. Might be why it is knee-high and only now blooming.


Unfortunately you are probably correct UGH

Thumb of 2017-10-07/Benny101/ce96aa
Imageteddahlia
Oct 7, 2017 9:00 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
The purple Black Widow stock at Clack's Dahlias was very healthy. It was under 40% shade cloth as were nearly all her waterlilies and other varieties. It was about 6 feet tall. She also had HH Leda growing at the end of the row not under shade cloth and it was 7 feet tall and looked really good. Her HH Serenity looked good too and it was 6 feet tall also while it grows about 4 feet for us in the full sun. They have to grow under shade cloth because of the high heat the get in the summer. It reached 110 degrees there this year. Thumb of 2017-10-07/teddahlia/99b7ce
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
[Last edited Oct 7, 2017 9:04 AM CST]
Quote | Post #1263878 (20)

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