Growing conditions forum: Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub
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Ok...I've looked and can't find where this was discussed  I wanted to know if you use it exactly to label directions or dilute it ? Spray or just water with it. |
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| 1 oz per gallon of water is how I mix it. Then sit the plant in a bucket and water it well with the mixture allowing the plant to reabsorb some of the runoff. Flowers leave some of their fragrance in the hand that bestows them. - Chinese proverb |
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| In my opinion and experience... I used this method as an attempt to control my mealy bug issues over the past two years and here are my findings. 1) the bugs returned shortly after using...1-2 months 2) the bugs seem to become immune after the second dousing which was about 3 months after the first drowning. 3) bees, wasps and the like are still found 'belly-up or struggling to live, limping sadly along the ground even now...some time after my last treatment. There is much information about the active ingredient contained in the Bayer products. Activist against this chemical are claiming the extinction of the critters as well as many fruits and flowers that are pollinated with the help from these insects. Just something to think about...it breaks my heart every time I notice these sick insects that used to buzz around my fruit trees and flowers. My hope is that the poison will soon 'wear-off' my plants and I can enjoy the buzzing outside again soon. My findings were it did not do the job I hoped and the deadly result is devastating to many involved. Joni |
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| Joni, thanks for the being so straightforward with your experience. I used something that came highly recommended by someone who had a good experience with the product so I bought some and treated all my hoyas, about 25 at the time, and not long after I used it she called and said several of her hoyas were dying. Great, and mine were sprayed! And I was very careful not to allow any to get any on the soil. I thought maybe that was what was killing hers. Not long after, I found some of my hoyas dying, too. I was sick that I could not save them. I am wondering if certain hoyas can take certain treatments and some can't. Just a thought. Your critters will return, don't worry! |
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| I have used BATS for over 4 years now with no problems. It has controlled the mealies,aphids, and scales for up to a year for me. I very seldom ever have to repeat a application more than that.If I do it's because I have received a plant or cutting with the hitchhikers.I am extremely careful using this product. Since all of my Hoya's are housed inside of a screened in inclosure the bees and other beneficial insects and critters are not killed or affected by my using it. This product should be used according to label directions and should be kept out of streams,lakes,and other aquatic habitats of concern as it is toxic to aquatic invertebrates. MSDS for BATS http://cooperseeds.com/MSDS/TreeShrubInsectControlMSDS.pdf Flowers leave some of their fragrance in the hand that bestows them. - Chinese proverb |
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| I have to report that my experience with BATS mirrors Reginas. I have also been using it for four years and have not ever (knock on wood) had a Mealie, Aphid, or Scale in all of that time. I have also used it off label to eliminate the Asiatic Lilly Beatle; most gardeners around here have pulled all of their lillies, because the insect is so completely devestating. It does have to be used with care however. Two years ago in the greenhouse I observed what Joni reports on the pollinators falling dead within a few hours of consuming the flower nectar. This was particularly noticeable on H. wayetii and these hornets or wasps that came into the greenhouse to feed on the dripping flowers. They would become disoriented and be dead in the morning. I was sweeping up large numbers of them every day. I wish I did not have to use BATS, but with all of my plants I can't afford a big insect infestation. Doug |
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| Thanks, Doug, for your 'local' input. Are you just drenching the plant or roots, too? Also, there seems to be variance on strength, so are you diluting with water? |
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| Randy, I also use the 1 oz. per gallon of water (I use my digital kitchen scale to hold the watering can and pour in the BATS so if my watering can holds two gallons I put the can on the scale and weigh out 2oz. I pour it on as a drench and let the plant sit in a saucer of it for 10 minutes give or take. I only treat the plants that go into the greenhouse or outdoors, not the plants that stay in the house. |
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| There has been conjecture that the active ingredient in BATS, Imidocloprid, is one of the causes of Hive Collapse...I don't know. I have used it for the past 6 years in my greenhouse with none of the problems Joni has seen. Then, again, I don't have bees in there either but I know that the little ghekos and the anoles drink the honey and don't find them dead. I have not lost any plants at all that I can trace to using BATS. I don't spray it, but I drench the pots.... Leap. The net will appear. |
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| I didn't have any BATS so yesterday I bought some. Day before yesterday I found one of the dread white sticky son of a guns on my polyneura, the one I said I had for a year and had no bugs! I have searched the entire plant and found none but the one. I have no evidence of any on any others but am going to treat them all. Thanks to all of you for comments on the BATS. |
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I stopped using BATS as well, as it stopped working. The plants I now find mealies on, I dunk into a sinkful of soapy (Ivory liquid) water; I gently wash all of the leaves and stems. I then run tap water over the leaves to rinse, and through the pot until there are no more bubbles. The plants will need a second drenching about a week-10 days later. I am ever-vigilant and have nearly stopped seeing them. Sometimes the plant will go a bit downhill afterwards (leaf loss), but they have all recovered nicely. I keep a bottle of spray rubbing alcohol for minor break-outs, but the alcohol isn't a cure, it just makes me feel better seeing the little monsters die.  Christine |
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| I am currently going thru my greenhouse, making sure my pots aren't too small for the plants = the water is getting all the way thru when I water. If it doesn't get all the way thru the pot, 3 nasty things happen to me: 1) the root mealies set in and while not visible on the plant, are chewing the roots to death, 2) Only the top 1/4-1/2 of the pot gets water and the bottom roots dry up and then die=rot, 3) the water around the stem can start rot there too...it should drain quickly. This is a wonderful time of the year to check pots: I tip out all my plants and check the roots. I don't find they skip a beat! If the roots are solid and the medium is dry, I soak the ball of roots and then I pot UP one size. ....I just repot as required...give them a bit of fertilizer and a real drench of water and move on. IF you are trying to unpot and there is resistance...the roots are clinging to the inside of the pot...it's dry. Wet/drench it and then it will tip out more easily. I check roots often...each large plant is tipped out at least once a year...sometimes more often...still better than being ripped out of a tree and keep on ticking!!!!  Leap. The net will appear. |
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| Thank You all for your input....I think I'll be using this very carefully, I have too many critters that I don't want harmed. |
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| Last year my H. polyneura (EA plants) got a pretty bad case of both yellow aphids (which attack anything in the asclepiad family that I grow) and a few mealies. I went to get some Neem oil at a hydro store (California has one on EVERY corner - more than Starbucks!!) and the guy working the counter told me about 'Azamax' (or what ever product with Azadirachtin in it). It's an extract of Neem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azadirachtin) and I used it mixed with a few drops of soap in a spray bottle and that pretty much got rid of both. I also gave the plant a good hosing off - which knocked most of the yellow aphids off. I have been using in now for any signs of Mealies (root and non-root) and I like that it's not oily and doesn't leave a residue on plants. As far as I can tell, Neem is more on the organic side (correct me if I'm wrong) but at least it is not as harsh as BATS. I also understand that when used as a drench Azamax acts systemically too. Anyhoo , just wanted to share what I use now. Edited to add that I mostly use it on begonias and other houseplants as I don't have that many hoya with problems. Recently picked up H. austaralis that is variegated from Kartuz nursery and it came with mealies so I've been treating it with the Azamax/soap mixture. So far so good. Perception is Unique! |
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| Great info, guys, and truthfully I did not know there were root mealies. Could that be a major reason healthy plants suddenly go into decline and no other apparent reason? I guess the important thing is to treat with something routinely to avoid root mealies. What do they look like, like the ones we see on the foilage? |
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| just do a Google image search for root mealie bugs and you'll get a pretty good return. Here's one Image source http://drycreekcactus.com/pot_a_plant/repot_1.jpg Perception is Unique! |
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| Also, when I was volunteering at the botanical garden in San Francisco, we were not allowed (OSHA laws) to use anything but basic organic measures to treat pests. One of the solutions we used for root mealies is to add cedar shavings/chips (like small critter bedding from a pet store) mixed into our soil blend. The cedar repels the root mealies. I've never used it on hoya but have extensively on my begonias. Perception is Unique! |
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| Whoa! Thanks so much, and now I will know what to look for. |
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| Really good information!!!! Thanks, Lali Leap. The net will appear. |
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| Thats great info Lali Thanks! I started last summer adding the cedar shreds to my potting mix and have had no problems, great to know it will help repel root mealies. Neem oil is a vegetable oil pressed from the fruits and seeds of neem (Azadirachta indica), an evergreen tree. Characteristics: Neem oil is generally red as blood, bitter and has a rather strong odour that is said to combine the odours of peanut and garlic. It comprises mainly triglycerides and large amounts of triterpenoid compounds, which are responsible for the bitter taste. It is hydrophobic in nature and in order to emulsify it in water for application purposes, it must be formulated with appropriate surfactants. Neem oil also contains steroids (campesterol, beta-sitosterol, stigmasterol) and many triterpenoids of which azadirachtin is the most well known and studied. The azadirachtin content of neem oil varies from 300ppm to over 2500ppm depending on the extraction technology and quality of the neem seeds crushed Neem is a great natural product but with over 200 + Hoya's in my collection and growing... applying Neem every two weeks verses BATS once or twice a year just makes more sense for me. Flowers leave some of their fragrance in the hand that bestows them. - Chinese proverb |
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