Discussion of Colors, Forms or Varieties forum: Blue Dahlia

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Imageteddahlia
Jan 29, 2013 10:28 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
How could we have a discussion of all the dahlia colors without including the subject of the possibility of a true, blue dahlia?
I shall start the discussion by including a picture of a "blue" dahlia created by converting a picture of a waterlily flower into a black and white picture and then crudely changing the color to blue.
Thumb of 2013-01-29/teddahlia/18ba64

In flower science, there is lots of research on blue flowers and why they are blue. Dahlias can have a touch of blue in the pigment and that is what produces the blueish purples and lavender flowers.

First, what is the most "blue" dahlia that you have seen?
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
[Last edited Jan 29, 2013 11:34 AM CST]
Quote | Post #945570 (1)
Imageedewitt
Jan 29, 2013 10:41 AM CST
Name: Eric DeWitt
Mountainair, NM
"Worton's Blue Streak" seems to be the closest to blue that I've grown. I've been tempted to try a few of the dahlias from Swan Island like "Bluetiful" and "Outta Da Blue".
ImageIslander
Jan 29, 2013 11:05 AM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Warren, Oregon
retired flower farmer
I think Bluetiful is the bluest I have grown..definitely stands out when placed with lavenders and purples. I'll go hunt for a picture....be right back...Thumb of 2013-01-29/Islander/83ea4f
Thumb of 2013-01-29/Islander/a64b89
It's a magenta beyond these
Bleutifuls to compare with.

Salish Dahlias
[Last edited Jan 29, 2013 2:44 PM CST]
Quote | Post #945582 (3)
ImageMaryNZ
Jan 29, 2013 12:00 PM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

Thomas Edison and Worton's Blue Streak were both at the show on Monday. Thomas Edison was bluer (and also a lot darker).
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
vikingcraftsman
Jan 29, 2013 12:20 PM CST
I grew Blue bayou once. It did not produce any tubers so I never grew it again.
Imageteddahlia
Jan 29, 2013 7:43 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
"Blue" roses have been created. Will dahlias be next?

quote from http://www.florigene.com/news/news.php

"For the first time in the world, SUNTORY has succeeded in creating blue pigment in roses by implanting the gene that leads to the synthesis of blue pigment from pansy. Unlike the roses created by using conventional breeding technologies, the roses developed by us have almost 100%* Delphinidin in their petals, which has allowed these new and very different blue roses to become a reality. Although traditional roses have only red pigments, by using the blue roses we have developed as a starting point, it is expected that roses with the ability to create a blue pigment will soon lead more variety in rose flower colour."

The picture of the "blue" rose is only about as blue as Worton Blue Streak.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageRedmondPhyllis
Jan 29, 2013 9:25 PM CST
Name: Phyllis Stengl
Sequim, WA
Deer are beautiful if they don't e
In other words . . . not very blue. Or it never looked that blue to me. Not a bad color, just . . . not blue.
Imageedewitt
Jan 29, 2013 9:51 PM CST
Name: Eric DeWitt
Mountainair, NM
That's about as blue as the roses I got that came with the house I bought in 2007. They're nice but not blue.
ImageRedmondPhyllis
Jan 29, 2013 10:22 PM CST
Name: Phyllis Stengl
Sequim, WA
Deer are beautiful if they don't e
But Ted's cyber dahlia . . . THAT'S blue! I'd buy that one Ted!
Imagetodgor
Jan 30, 2013 7:55 PM CST
Name: Tod Gordon
West Caldwell, NJ
This is only in the google cache, deleted on the site now (English is terrible):

"Japanese researchers created a blue dahlia

TOKYO, June 5 call (Reporter blue construction) Chiba University in Japan on the 5th, the horticulture professor of the Graduate School three are ocean research team led by recombinant The blue dahlia bred for the first time in the world.

the origin Mexico Dahlia color is very rich, but did not open the blue flowers of the natural varieties. Chiba University, says the team is implanted in pink the univalve varieties of Dahlia “Japan Ji” open blue flowers of Commelina Blue Gene, and encouraged open blue-violet flowers of the dahlia, and then the petals Dahlia hybrid and eventually breed Double Blue Dahlia."

I think this is it on pinterest but my work security software won't let me there:

Thumb of 2013-01-31/todgor/9217f5

pinterest.com/hiyamaminoru/my-favorite-things/


[Last edited Jan 30, 2013 8:07 PM CST]
Quote | Post #945911 (10)
Imageteddahlia
Jan 31, 2013 11:23 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
It appears that the Japanese at Chiba University have transplanted a blue pigment gene from the commelina flower into a dahlia. It is a metalloanthocyanin and contains some magnesium. I am only guessing about this as the details are sketchy in my internet research. I am surprised this breakthrough was not more publicized as the news release is several months old.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
Imageteddahlia
Jan 31, 2013 11:54 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
I took samples of the colors in the Chiba Blue flower and Hollyhill Lavender Blue and placed them side by side. This is not real accurate as you can get many different color values depending upon where you sample. I tried to get the darker colors for each bloom.
Thumb of 2013-01-31/teddahlia/df5581
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
Imageteddahlia
Feb 1, 2013 4:48 PM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
There has been more discussion on the blue dahlia on facebook and a second picture was posted by our Mary that is very much blue:
Thumb of 2013-02-01/teddahlia/e828a7
It may be a good time to discuss plant patents that may apply to the blue dahlia. When you transplant a gene from another species into a plant, some call this GMO or genetically modified organism. Patent rules are different for GMOs. In the case of the Chiba blue flowers, they have a gene(or more) that produces blue pigment in the dahlia. The gene comes from a different species of plant called commelina. Here is link to the wiki page for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commelina
The blue dahlia can be patented and the patent protects propagation rights just like a normal plant patent except that it is the transplanted gene that is patented. That means that no seeds or pollen from the blue dahlias can legally be used for propagation or breeding without the payment of royalties(or permission of the patent holder). You are not legally allowed to plant seeds, use the pollen or propagate cuttings or produce tubers without paying royalties.

We do not know if the blue genetic material has been or will be patented. My suspicion is that they will patent it.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
[Last edited Feb 1, 2013 7:08 PM CST]
Quote | Post #946363 (13)
ImageIslander
Feb 1, 2013 7:26 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Warren, Oregon
retired flower farmer
I don't think I would want this flower no matter how blue. I don't eat GMO's if I can help it...why would I want to grow GMO flowers?
Delphiniums, Ageratum, Rose of Sharon,forget-me-not,batchlors buttons, blue poppies, those are all natural blues that are exciting in their own right and set off the dahlias in our bouquets. I like the contrast in shapes and textures.
Salish Dahlias
ImageMaryNZ
Feb 1, 2013 8:05 PM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

While I am fascinated, I would not want to grow it either. There are reports of unexpected consequences of genetic modification, and if these are true, we still have much to learn. I think it was on a TED talk that I heard a man say how humanity's ability to make changes to the world has grown exponentially, while our ability to predict the consequences of those changes has stayed roughly the same!

I also like having to turn to a different flower to see blue. It means that each kind of flower has its own special quality to offer. One could argue that there is less to value about Commelina now that the Dahlia has its colour.
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
Imagetodgor
Feb 1, 2013 9:07 PM CST
Name: Tod Gordon
West Caldwell, NJ
GM is why I would never buy anything from Monsanto, their goal is to patent all plant foodstuffs and these can cause organ damage. As a programmer, I can see how splicing bits of genetic code together is kind of like a 5 year old playing with the most complex program ever devised - not a good idea. Then I thought about the dahlia, and that I wasn't going to eat it - but wait, bugs would. What could it do to them? Nevertheless I find it fascinating that such a naturally impossible thing was done - its a neat curiosity. Could nature do such a thing potentially? Maybe. But nature tends to favor things that are hardy and useful to the environment, not what is necessarily most aesthetic to human tastes of the moment. I imagine a lot of dahlia hybrids now available won't last, sadly so because of the beauty of the blooms. Barbara Hardisty Kantor would be one.
ImageMaryNZ
Feb 2, 2013 1:50 AM CST
Name: Mary St George
New Zealand

Off topic, but as regards Monsanto: The power of a corporation that owns the rights to reproduce many staple foods, and it not elected, is cautionary, to say the least.
My photos are licensed CC BY (Attribution). More Dahlia photos here.
I also spend time in FB Dahlia groups at http://www.facebook.com/groups/363854624030/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/dahlias/
Imageteddahlia
Feb 2, 2013 10:36 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Barbara Hardisty Kantor: I tried to grow it for two years. Never got a decent bloom and tossed it. Some varieties are just vigorous enough to exhibit nice blooms for a year or two and succumb to any number of maladies not the least of which is poor tuber making. It appeared to have acquired virus in my garden.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
dahlia53
Feb 17, 2019 1:08 PM CST
Name: Brenda
Orcas Island, WA
this is a super old thread and I haven't posted much on Cubits; i "dropped out" for a number of years. I have been reading a number of threads on the Growing Dahlias cubit and am so happy to be back here among dahlia enthusiasts!

I'm surprised no one mentioned Lilac Time; it is the bluest dahlia I have grown and its form is so beautiful. Oldie but goodie and still has a place in my garden and is still a favorite. had to "Borrow" a pic from a blog entitled The Biking Gardener (all credits to the blog) because my computer fried and i lost all of my pictures and documents; hope this works.

Thumb of 2019-02-17/dahlia53/0632e0
ImageIslander
Feb 17, 2019 10:37 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Warren, Oregon
retired flower farmer
That is pretty! I grew Bluetiful for years and it really does come close to Periwinkle blue but it also didn't hold up well during the hot summer days at market..I found it "lacking in substance". Thumb of 2019-02-18/Islander/1f1108 .
Salish Dahlias

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