Discussion of Colors, Forms or Varieties forum: Unrecognized dahlia traits

 
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Imageteddahlia
Dec 14, 2015 9:59 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
There seems to be several people who admire dahlia flower traits that are not recognized by the American Dahlia Society:
(1)Picotee flowers. This color pattern is the "Bees Knees" for many people. I have noticed that there is a short life of the picotee pattern after picking. I would give it about 24 hours in the vase before the red pigment bleeds into the background color. Any comments?
(2) Swirling "Birds Nest" cactus flowers. The ADS defines incurved cactus and does not have a specific class for the swirled types. Margaret and I love them to the point that we have been known to show "overripe" blooms just to show off the swirled pattern.
(3) "Barbies"(my own term for them). There are flowers that have little barbs on the florets, usually on laciniated flowers but not always. Horse Feathers was the first one I saw. Then there was Thistle and Pink Thistle. Then the Heeringas came up with a couple of them but the names escape me. Magic Moment has a few of the barbs.too.

Any more unrecognized categories? Someone mention flowers with notches rather than official laciniations.
“Flowers are like friends; They bring color to your world.” – Unknown
Imagetodgor
Dec 14, 2015 10:13 AM CST
Name: Tod Gordon
West Caldwell, NJ
I will have to do a study of the picotees I am getting this year, I usually give the blooms to the ladies at work, and I don't know if it vanishes. They are indeed the bee's knees to me, BTW. :)

I wonder what factor "oomphs" the bird-nestieness of the bloom - temperature, nutrients, or some genetic variance? Fans of Snoho Storm may now want to avert their eyes, here is a very relaxed bloom I had:

Thumb of 2015-12-14/todgor/56eecd

Here is another rare pattern, Giraffe - not the usual variegation:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Da...
Imageteddahlia
Dec 14, 2015 10:34 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
The "Giraffe" trait that is rarely seen are the horizontal bars of pigment on the back side of the florets. It has been transmitted to seedlings and Les Connell had a variety called Tahoma Giraffe. I believe that Roland Verrone has some with this trait too. Tahoma Giraffe was a fine flower and we grew it for several years before losing it(not a good tuber maker). Thumb of 2015-12-14/teddahlia/4fdfa0
“Flowers are like friends; They bring color to your world.” – Unknown
ImageBenny101
Dec 14, 2015 10:54 AM CST
Greenville MI - zone 5b
I have been wondering how much of the barb trait Magic Moment will pass to its seedlings .

ImageIslander
Dec 14, 2015 11:11 AM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
Another with the barbs is AC Thornbird, a 2015 into from Accent.Thumb of 2015-12-14/Islander/651b48 . Not a great photo of it. Color was a bit better and thorns more apparent then this pic shows. I quite liked it.
Imageteddahlia
Dec 14, 2015 11:52 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Barbs, Thorns or Spurs. I like like Barbs as they could be called "Barbies". "Thornies" and Spurries" are not quite as descriptive. We need a close up picture of the barbs.
http://dahlia.france.free.fr/images/Vista CodyP1020895.JPG
“Flowers are like friends; They bring color to your world.” – Unknown
Imagehonnat
Dec 14, 2015 3:56 PM CST
St. Paul, MN
Verrone's Richard B has the giraffe trait a bit. I can't seem to get any decent tubers from it and wont be bringing it back for 2016. It can be nice though.
ImageIslander
Dec 14, 2015 4:49 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
Verrone's RIchard B bloomed like crazy for me last year/...but they tended to pop open centered, or bruise badly on the way to market. I won't be growing it next year either. I loved the color, good healthy plants, but just too many I had to toss. That makes room to try something else instead.
portia
Dec 17, 2015 8:00 AM CST
Southern PA, Brandywine
I like 'ruffly' dahlias where the petals look like ruffles. It seems like some AA's have it but also some cactus.
Imageteddahlia
Dec 17, 2015 9:25 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
portia wrote:I like 'ruffly' dahlias where the petals look like ruffles. It seems like some AA's have it but also some cactus.


A picture is worth a thousand words.
“Flowers are like friends; They bring color to your world.” – Unknown
ImagePNWGal
Dec 19, 2015 6:22 PM CST
Name: Linda
Portland OR, zone 8b
When I think "ruffly", I think Informal Decorative. Like this photo of Bloomquist Sun Rays by Noni.
Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/97391c
Bluetiful and OBO Katie are both IDs that look ruffled to me.
Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/9eea30
Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/62cd1a
It's a trait I like, but I'm not coming up with an image in my mind for a ruffled cactus.
ImagePNWGal
Dec 19, 2015 7:55 PM CST
Name: Linda
Portland OR, zone 8b
teddahlia wrote:
Any more unrecognized categories? Someone mention flowers with notches rather than official laciniations.


They do have a different look. Sandia Comanche is is a good example of ADS laciniated, as the splits are deep and the florets twisted. Cheyenne is in the same class, with splits that are less deep.
Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/4dec21 Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/16beb1
Compare to a couple of my seedlings from last year. The florets are mostly flat, with shallow splits. That is notched rather than laciniated by ADS standards.
Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/36402d Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/1452a6
Higher temperatures tend to make for deeper splits, so the classification may depend on the conditions at the time it was evaluated. Here is an extreme example: Piedmont Rebel. The first shot, by Clear Creek here on cubits, shows a bloom with barely split tips. I couldn't figure out why it was listed by the ADS as laciniated, until I found this photo from someone in Tennessee.
Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/f31a19 Thumb of 2015-12-20/PNWGal/0efd83
ImageIslander
Dec 19, 2015 8:10 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
Those are interesting differences. I am guessing that the notched petals might hold up better at a warm summer market then the laciniated and rolled ones. It would be interesting to see....
ImagePNWGal
Dec 19, 2015 8:12 PM CST
Name: Linda
Portland OR, zone 8b
A lot of breeders refer to certain of their varieties as "arrangers' flowers". Could we see some examples? What makes something an "arrangers' flower"? How do they differ from show flowers / garden flowers / cut flowers?
ImagePNWGal
Dec 19, 2015 8:23 PM CST
Name: Linda
Portland OR, zone 8b
I think the notched ones can have a certain charm of their own, but since it is not a recognized characteristic, it is hard to search them out. There are some to be found just by looking through catalogs. Linda's Dahlias has a few, Kelsey's Wish, Lakeview Peach Fuzz and Melissa's Magic. The first two are listed as laciniated, the last as FD. Go figure.
ImageIslander
Dec 19, 2015 11:19 PM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Vashon Island, Washington
growing and selling organic cutflow
Arrangers flowers...I suspect these are more for a sort term special event where looking good for a long time is not as important as with the person who takes a bouquet home to enjoy over a span of days. But the "Arrangers Flowers" seem to have some special "Oooh and Ahhhh" qualities that people really enjoy seeing..like the arrangements Margaret makes for the dahlia shows...Perhaps in an arrangers flower form and shape are more important then color....I don't know, these are just random thoughts that occurred to me. I am sure Ted will have more to say about this.. Smiling
ImageBenny101
Dec 20, 2015 6:59 AM CST
Greenville MI - zone 5b
I remember Ted describing HH Fairy Queen as more of an arrangers flower , it has tough long wiry stems , a pleasing bloom position on the stem and for looking quite dainty it is surprisingly durable .
I remember snapping this photo just an hour or so after a freak wind and hail storm , it looks like she hid under an umbrella through the whole ordeal as most other blooms looked a bit unwieldy .

Thumb of 2015-12-20/Benny101/c9fb79
Thumb of 2015-12-20/Benny101/2d0391
Imageteddahlia
Dec 20, 2015 9:55 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Arrangers flowers are those that have something special that makes them suitable for an arrangement. Examples:
The one flower design: The flower must be beautiful and colorful and have a shape and form that allow it to be the only flower in the design.
The exotic blooms: Spiderwoman, Wyns Eeekk!!, Shaggy Dog and and several others are just wonderful for designs.
Examples of blooms that are not arrangers flowers: Most ball dahlias, most formal decorative flowers, flowers that have ugly colors.
What are the differences between good cut flowers and arrangers flowers? Good cut flowers have to be prolific bloomers for economic reasons. Arrangers flowers can be scarce bloomers and difficult to grow as people will put up with their quirks to get the special flowers. Spiderwoman is an example as it is not very vigorous, has to be disbudded as the stems are too short and makes very few tubers. But one Spiderwoman flower is all you need.

“Flowers are like friends; They bring color to your world.” – Unknown
addicted
Dec 20, 2015 10:12 PM CST
Name: Em
NY
This is Mike Iler's Medusa. I was expecting a mignon single....a happy accident! I enjoyed growing it and visitors loved it!
Thumb of 2015-12-21/addicted/e7375a
Em
Dahlias -- the gift that keeps on giving!
ImageBenny101
Dec 25, 2015 7:49 AM CST
Greenville MI - zone 5b
This first year seedling appeared to have a split and small notch in the tips

Thumb of 2015-12-25/Benny101/956298

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'Unrecognized Form' Dahlias
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