Discussion of Colors, Forms or Varieties forum: List of SHADE-LOVING dahlia varieties

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ImageCCvacation
Jun 17, 2016 11:45 AM CST
Name: CC
PA
Which dahlia blooms really benefit from light shade?

This list is really about which varieties really look strikingly better with shade to protect the colors from fading. Please share what varieties get special treatment, and why.

I've noticed shade really pops the dark blends, so they don't blend as much. Camano
Mordor would be an example of this, with washed out colors in sun and intense colors in shade.
CC
anniecan
Jun 17, 2016 4:04 PM CST
Name: Annie Luck
Apex, North Carolina
BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN TH
CC, I just googled Camano Mordor. Drooling
Yes, I'd find some shade for it!
I'll be taking notes on this issue for this season.
Such good info to know for future seasons. Thumbs up
ImageFLflowerboy
Jun 17, 2016 4:53 PM CST
Name: Jon George
Gainesville, FL
...crazy enough to grow dahlias in
Just picked a very faded Camano Modor for the friend picking for a wedding. She admired the strong stem and "vintage shade" of the bloom. The form was so good that the lighter version could be forgiven.
"What is a weed?" asked Peppa Pig. "A weed is a cheeky plant growing in the wrong place!" replied Grandpa Pig.
Imagesrfulton1022
Jun 17, 2016 5:07 PM CST
Name: Steve Fulton
Milton, Florida
I have this one in a bit of shade but it gets lots of afternoon sun but still shaded some. It is really started to sing, name is Gallery singer.Thumb of 2016-06-17/srfulton1022/4bbef9
Thumb of 2016-06-17/srfulton1022/5a034d
ImageFLflowerboy
Jun 17, 2016 5:12 PM CST
Name: Jon George
Gainesville, FL
...crazy enough to grow dahlias in
Sticking tongue out
Thumb of 2016-06-17/FLflowerboy/a50b13
Tahoma Vivian could use some shading. The first two days here the color is intense and then starts fading rapidly in the FL Sun.
"What is a weed?" asked Peppa Pig. "A weed is a cheeky plant growing in the wrong place!" replied Grandpa Pig.
ImageCCvacation
Jun 17, 2016 10:50 PM CST
Name: CC
PA
mandolls wrote:
What are you defining as "shady" - less than 6 hours of full sun? less than 8 hours?


I would say that a week of cloudy weather in a clearing with no umbrellas, screens or branches can be just as effective as the densest overhanging branches, for the purpose of keeping colors vivid that would otherwise fade.

We are looking to add to a master list of those awesome varieties that 'pop' their vivid colors with shade of any sort, that normally fade out under sun. For our purposes here, this is a good description of 'shade.'

Shade = any kind of sun excluder

CC
ImageCCvacation
Jun 17, 2016 10:53 PM CST
Name: CC
PA
Of course, there are two matters that are begging to be discussed:
1. How much shade is necessary to keep fading colors from fading? (% shade cloth)
2. What pigments are responsible for fading? (Ted's department)
CC
anniecan
Jun 18, 2016 4:48 AM CST
Name: Annie Luck
Apex, North Carolina
BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN TH
I'm also wondering about varieties like Victoria Ann and Midnight Moon.
They are often washed out looking, but then regain their coloring in the fall with the cooler weather. So is it the heat, or the sun?
ImageCCvacation
Jun 18, 2016 6:45 AM CST
Name: CC
PA
Jon, could you please post a good image of after-sun Camano Mordor?
Thumb of 2016-06-18/CCvacation/53c683
CC
ImageIslander
Jun 18, 2016 8:16 AM CST
Name: Noni Morrison
Warren, Oregon
retired flower farmer
Hollyhill Lemon Ice is the one I look for shade for. It is not because the flower fades, but because it seems to sunburn, with the white petals burning crispy brown. It is such a cheerful pretty flower when the weather is overcast, or it is protected from bright sun. Hollyhill Joker's WIld is another even though I know they are not related. They both have the white petals that burn.
Salish Dahlias
Imageteddahlia
Jun 18, 2016 9:16 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
Dr Lawrence in the 1930s, who did the original research on dahlia pigments, identified two anthocyanin pigments that make a dahlia flower red(and purple too). One of them was resistant to fading and the other was not. He called the "fader" pale anthocyanin(a bad name as it is actually brighter). His theory was that each of the pigments originated in different species of dahlias that crossed to create our garden dahlia. The pale anthocyanin is a brighter red with just a hint of blue pigment. That creates deep pinks and violet shades that are more pleasing to the eye than the other anthocynin. It is unstable in sunlight. Camano Mordor probably has lots of it. I do not know for sure, but I believe that pale anthocyanin(or at least some versions of it) require sunlight at the opening bud stage to form. If you grow these dahlias in constant shade, they will have poorly colored flowers as the pale anthocynin will not be present. So in order to get the most intensely colored flowers of these types, you can use umbrellas and put the umbrella over the bloom only when it has partially opened and the sun has done it's magic to create the pigment. The umbrella will keep the same sun from fading the pigment. Shade cloth that can be removed and replaced would work also. Normandy Promise was the most intensely pink dahlia I have ever seen. It had to go through this process to achieve the intense pink color. Kenora Wow is the classic one of this type. Others include Mingus Nicole and Hollyhill Twilight. There are many more and Mingus Mikie comes to mind.

As I read this again, many of the "faders" do make nice flowers in the shade, so not all of them have to have sun to form the intense pigment. We need to make observations and identify the ones that need sun to form pigment. A scenario may well may be that the flower is forming in full sunlight and gets to about half open. The next day is cloudy and when it opens, it is a full pigmented flower and the clouds keep it from fading immediately. I am sure that Mingus Mikie is this type.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
[Last edited Jun 18, 2016 9:34 AM CST]
Quote | Post #1203333 (11)
Imagesrfulton1022
Jun 18, 2016 11:11 AM CST
Name: Steve Fulton
Milton, Florida
I am growing Mystery Day in part shade and it has buds on it know and Blue Bell too but no buds yet,
ImageCCvacation
Jun 18, 2016 11:32 AM CST
Name: CC
PA
Whites that need shade or they burn- from the recesses of my memory, I recall Ted discussing something about two different whites... one with pigment that doesn't burn, and the LACK of pigment that does burn in sunlight. I suppose the burning whites should have a list of their own.
CC
ImageCCvacation
Jun 18, 2016 11:38 AM CST
Name: CC
PA
Interesting about Tahoma Vivian. I grew it last year in sun, and I didn't notice any fading. Of course, I don't get the intense sunshine in PA that Floridians experience.
Thumb of 2016-06-18/CCvacation/1ae7dc

This year, I am prepping the plants I have of it for show, and they are all in mostly shade for the stem elongation benefits.
CC
Imageteddahlia
Jun 18, 2016 11:51 AM CST
Name: Ted
Oregon
We enjoy breeding new dahlias!
White dahlias do have pigment. If a dahlia petal did not have pigment it would be nearly transparent and I have seen many seedlings with such a trait. They immediately turn brown as they burn in the sun. Bicolor dahlias have the two colors and most of us think of white as the secondary color. It is formed by the other color not forming on the tips of the florets. Some bicolors dahlias do not have much white pigment in those white tips and they are subject to burning.

I did not talk about the other anthocyanin that makes red pigment. It tends to get darker in sunlight. The darker color may be dull so they do benefit from some shading for show. It is quite possible I suppose that a flower could have some of both anthocyaninins. Or more likely a slightly different version that fades somewhat. We need a biochemist with a mass spectrum analyzer to join Cubits.
We like to place a sign on our porch that says: We are in the garden. Really, we are always in the garden.
ImageFLflowerboy
Jun 18, 2016 6:50 PM CST
Name: Jon George
Gainesville, FL
...crazy enough to grow dahlias in
Just a note that Tahoma Vivian was more brilliant earlier in the year when the weather was cooler. Might be a temperature variation on that beauty. CC, I gave away that first and only faded C. Mordor bloom...will have to wait for a new one.
"What is a weed?" asked Peppa Pig. "A weed is a cheeky plant growing in the wrong place!" replied Grandpa Pig.
ImageCCvacation
Jun 18, 2016 7:56 PM CST
Name: CC
PA
Well, drat! How the heck do you test whether fading is correlated with heat or sun intensity? That's an unexpected twist...
CC
ImageFLflowerboy
Jun 18, 2016 8:28 PM CST
Name: Jon George
Gainesville, FL
...crazy enough to grow dahlias in
Lol! Will keep you posted on the fading from here.
"What is a weed?" asked Peppa Pig. "A weed is a cheeky plant growing in the wrong place!" replied Grandpa Pig.
ImageCCvacation
Jun 18, 2016 8:52 PM CST
Name: CC
PA
Something we have discussed on other threads that connects with the fading topics:

Picotee

Intense sunlight tends to fade these dark edges.
CC
anniecan
Jun 19, 2016 4:40 AM CST
Name: Annie Luck
Apex, North Carolina
BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN TH
I LOVE picoteed edges, so that is a huge disappointment if/when it doesn't happen. Hart's Bonnie kept her red edges here though, as I mentioned before.

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