General Discussion forum: iris ethics

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Views: 42, Replies: 51 » Jump to the end
Imageirisarian
Oct 20, 2015 8:09 PM CST
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA
irises
yea!!
Imageauxiris
Oct 21, 2015 5:20 AM CST
Name: Michele
France
Hello everyone;

Just to add a few more rocks to the growing pile, once upon a time I, too was a member of the Société Française des Iris et Plantes Bulbeuses. I stepped in and saved the competition that they are so proud of now, Franciris, the 2005 edition, when the person who was supposed to be the competition secretary dropped everything and moved away from the Parisian region with no warning. It was the first SUCCESSFUL edition of this competition and I never received any credit for the work I did to save it. The president of the SFIB at that time (Anne-Marie Chesnais) then arranged things so that I wouldn't able to identify the eventual competition winners by changing the garden numbering system and not informing me of these changes, with the connivance of other members of the board. I was finally able to obtain the new numbering system the day of the final judgement from the person taking care of the garden at the school hosting the competition and thus saved from total humiliation, but when I tried to convince the membership of the SFIB, they all sided with the president and the rest of the board of directors and my only open course of action was to opt out of the SFIB. I had hoped that things would change for the better when the current president, Roland Dejoux, took over after forcing Anne-Marie Chesnais to give up the presidency after the dismal failure of the Francis 2011 and the cancellation of the 2013 edition, but they have not. Anyone in the French iris world who refuses to be a member of the SFIB in France is denigrated and ignored. Also, the SFIB has now created a monopoly on any irises shipped into France from abroad, whether from Australia, the United States or Russia, inciting growers in these countries to send their plants by grouped SFIB orders which then go through the Netherlands to enter Europe. Of course, if you're not an SFIB member, you cannot participate in such grouped orders. . . ! Now I hear about how the AIS convention attendees applauded the presence of Roland Dejoux this year as if he were some kind of hero, when people on the SFIB board do things like sell irises on their commercial websites under names registered to other irises which creates all kinds of confusion and another member of the SFIB sells an incorrect under a registered name---but also claims that it is the creation of Richard Cayeux. It seems to me that they could sweep in front of their own doorway once in a while!
ImageMShadow
Oct 21, 2015 9:16 AM CST
Name: Marilyn Campbell
Houghton Lake, MI
C, and Michele, very informative. There are crooks everywhere, not just politicians. The sad part is that they get away with it and there is not much you can do about it. At least you both can be proud of what you have accomplished. Thumbs up
Imagegrannysgarden
Oct 21, 2015 10:18 AM CST
Name: Bonnie Sojourner
Harris Brake, Arkansas, zone 7
The Magnolia Zone
C. and Michele, I am so sorry for the situation you are having in France right now. It will not last forever but in the meantime, for the people fighting the good fight, it is very frustrating. I have seen a bit of what you are enduring in other organizations in the U.S...... even in the church. I hope it does not take too long before it is resolved and in the meantime try not to get ulcers. Good luck and as Marilyn says "you can be proud of what you have accomplished", and I will add "what you will accomplish in the future".
Imageauxiris
Oct 21, 2015 10:20 AM CST
Name: Michele
France
Hi Marilyn. . . I'm only sorry to have to keep going on and on about it, really; there seems to be no respect of ethics anymore, though ALL of the ideas that I wrote down are those that I picked up from other people in the iris world. I didn't invent any of it. However, one of the reasons people get away with this sort of thing is that a) no one blows the whistle on them and b) even if you do, most folks don't even listen---or worse, think that you are only trying to stir up trouble for the fun of it. This couldn't be farther from the truth, since what concerns and motivates me is that SOMEONE should at least be trying to clean up this sort of mess and I feel that by pointing out the somewhat less than pretty things, we can all have iris associations, competitions and so on that are more honest and fair.

I haven't really accomplished much of anything. . . here in France, I am mostly considered to be a "nobody" in the iris world. I don't belong to the so-called "national" iris association (because I don't agree with the way they do things or treat people) because I have been trashed by both this association and the national iris association in my own country, that is to say the AIS. So, regardless of the awards that my plants have won already (many medals from the Munich International Iris Competition and an AGC from the British Iris Society, which opens the door to the Dykes medal competition for this plant) and the fact that my plants are distributed by Hugh Stout in the United States and Ets. Cayeux here in Europe, I am essentially no one special.

I've spent twenty years of my life trying to breed decent irises. . . at the beginning, I really sincerely thought that it was all about pretty flowers and nice people and maybe even a good time to be had. I've never had a difficult time with the idea of hard work or making efforts to see my dreams become reality and I also thought that I might just have a bit of recognition for what I've done, though this certainly wasn't my main goal. But, after all this time of living in one place and gardening in another which is four hours away---with all the sacrifices that implies---I'm wondering where I went wrong and what I did to be ostracized.

Imageauxiris
Nov 25, 2015 10:56 AM CST
Name: Michele
France
Hello everyone;

One last comment on this subject. . . I had published my text concerning ethics in the iris world on Facebook (Iris Hybridizers) and, despite a very long discussion, no one is willing to stick their neck out and tell me how the text itself might be improved and the group's administrators do not (apparently) wish to retain the text. I am open to anyone's suggestions about how to get this text published somewhere and hopefully in front of the public. Ideas??
Imagecrowrita1
Nov 25, 2015 11:27 AM CST
Name: Arlyn
Whiteside Co, Illinois Zone 5A
Short of putting your ideas in the form of an "article".....which , basically you have already done.....and submitting it to the editors of the various AIS section "magazine' editors, I really can't think of anything. I had sent a link to this thread to the editor of ROOTS (HIPS magazine), and, while she found it very interesting , and agreed with the premise, felt that a "Historic' magazine wasn't really the place for it. And, if you think about it.....HIPS isn't geared towards hybridizing Shrug! .
ImageMShadow
Nov 27, 2015 10:35 AM CST
Name: Marilyn Campbell
Houghton Lake, MI
Michele, I think it is stupid that the group's administrators do not wish to retain the text. I thought everyone was supposed to be able to express their opinions.

Have you looked into the AIS blog? I have no idea how to go about publishing there, but it seems that a lot of different people do. http://theamericanirissociety.blogspot.com/

At the bottom of the page it says, "The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the staff of World of Irises or The American Iris Society. Please respect the right of contributors to articulate their opinion in a meaningful way. The core of Social Media is to encourage engagement with readers, so discussions of all topics are welcomed in the Comments Section."

The above comment makes me think that anyone can contribute. Good Luck.
Imageauxiris
Nov 27, 2015 11:57 AM CST
Name: Michele
France
Hi Marilyn and Arlyn. . .

The Iris Hybridizers group on Facebook did put a photo thing about how to hybridize at the top of their list and I had thought that my ethics text made a good companion piece (what good is knowing how to hybridize if you don't know how to behave responsibly?), but they apparently did not. Maybe it hits people where they live a bit too much. . .

Well, it actually has been published, my text concerning ethics, both here and on the crazy Facebook thing, which provoked a quite long discussion, during which I repeatedly asked if anyone had any suggestions about how to improve it or if anything had been left out----without any response, so it must be pretty complete.

I hadn't at all thought about the AIS blog and I do not have any idea either about how things get published there (might be the usual AIS police and I am not popular with the association), but since there is the usual "pirouette" of saying how the views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the AIS, possibly they might not blink at such an article. I suppose it would have to be padded out with more of an introductory text and a conclusion, but that isn't really a problem, as I am quite likely to talk anyone's ear off about ethics---and the lack of them---within the iris world.

Any road, thanks to both of you!
Imagegrannysgarden
Nov 28, 2015 6:36 AM CST
Name: Bonnie Sojourner
Harris Brake, Arkansas, zone 7
The Magnolia Zone
Most changes to customary behavior has always taken a lot of hard work to accomplish. You are passionate about this subject and I wish you the best of luck opening peoples eyes to the need for better ethics and personal responsibility.
Imageauxiris
Nov 29, 2015 4:03 AM CST
Name: Michele
France
Hi Bonnie. . . what I talk about in the ethics document is the way things USED to be and what I picked up as responsible behaviour from other iris people over a twenty year period, which isn't so very old as all that. It is all good common sense and respect for others' work and it's more recently that folks have gotten sloppy and want to do just any old thing. I cannot shove these ideas down anyone's throat and it isn't likely that people will be willing to respect them unless someone else backs the idea of ethical behaviour, so I guess it's not likely to happen. I have already experienced considerable abuse from other people in the iris world, such as from my former distributor, so I do have first-hand knowledge of what I'm talking about. Any road, I can't do it all by myself.
Imageirisarian
Nov 29, 2015 11:52 AM CST
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA
irises
The thing about correcting what you have laid out, is t hat those reading on facebook (including me) think you have stated it correctly. Some is just ignorance. there is a very nice person who sells well who sells her seedlings as well as some noids, If she were to read something perhaps she would reform. I don't if how to do things has been called to her attention r not.

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