CAT HEALTH & CARE forum: Internet DVM

 
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ImagesylviaNDcity
Feb 13, 2010 2:32 PM CST
Name: Sylvia Butler
Dallas TX 8a
My Sedric has Diabetes and I had to go to the internet to find out. I dont really trust Vets anymore ... and I do not trust the Pet food industry.
When Sedric first got sick, he was at the vet for three days because they didn't know what was wrong with him and this is one of the most reputable vets. I bought him home and he acted better, but he could not stop drinking water and he was flooding the litter box. He drank so much water, he would not leave the water bowl, actually he laid his head in that bowl.
I got on the net and started investigating his symptoms. I came across a site where you can actually talk to a DVM and you only pay them what you think is fair or whatever ... and she still send email every once in a while to see how Sedric is doing.
Anyway when I told her what was going on with Sedric, she immediately told me what she thought was going on, told me to take him to a vet right away have his glucose checked.
So after I talked to her I started scanning the internet for cats with Diabetes. I found all sorts of information indicating that Sedric had Diabetes. How could the Vet not know what is going on?
I took Sedric back to the vet and told her he had diabetes, that I read it on the internet. At this point she decides to give him a glucose test. His glucose level was 631!
So i am given the pitch about how old he is and I got to get use to it or I needed to think about what I was going to do, he needed insulin shots twice a day ... and she didn't know if I was up to it. I said I would try whatever it takes ... I got an in service on giving him injections, but I would need to bring him in weekly for a glucose test ... what the hell I already spent 600.00 how much worse can it get? Well it did!

... next post will be my encounter at Petco ... then I will go into getting a second opinion.

Thumbnail by sylviaNDcity

ImageStephGTx
Feb 18, 2010 10:52 PM CST
Name: Stephanie Gonzales
Texas
I'm sorry. I don't know who your vet is and I'm sure he/she has an outstanding rep., but they should have realized this the first day you brought him in. Did you refuse bloodwork? A $10 glucose check would have told them that. Even after a 3 day hospital stay? What WAS their issue?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
cando1
Mar 28, 2010 1:12 AM CST
Name: Vickie Speaks
Ozone Arkansas
You've got a beautiful furbaby. Being a diabetic myself. I know the constant thirst and trips to the bathroom just shouted diabetis. I would think a cats diabetic diet should'nt be that much different than mine to help controll it. I need to graze very low calories every 3hours. To help keep blood sugar level.
Vickie
Imagemeezers6
Mar 28, 2010 6:41 AM CST
Wisconsin
Probably needs to be on a no grain diet too, grains have carbs which convert to sugar which he doesn't need. Sounds like an inexperienced vet, if they were told about the thirst issues. That's a huge clue. And I think you can do urine checks for sugar with those little strips, and not go weekly to a vet who apparently doesn't know squat about cats.
It's best to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
syrinx
Apr 30, 2010 3:43 PM CST
Name: Pat
Greater Vancouver area, Wester
meezers6 wrote:Probably needs to be on a no grain diet too, grains have carbs which convert to sugar which he doesn't need. Sounds like an inexperienced vet, if they were told about the thirst issues. That's a huge clue. And I think you can do urine checks for sugar with those little strips, and not go weekly to a vet who apparently doesn't know squat about cats.


First, while there is a ton of information online suggesting cats don't need "carbs", they also don't need "fats", and adopting a 'no grain' diet will not eliminate the insulin resistance that is often caused by "serum lipids" or excess fat content in the blood.

Cats don't have glucokinase, and therefore don't have the ability to absorb simple carbohydrates in their mouths as other species do. This means you can do a glucose curve after giving your cat an insulin shot and there will be no indication of when a cat has, or hasn't eaten. Jacquie Rand, who is the most up to date researcher on this has done studies demonstrating this, and both she and Deb Zoran, (Texas A&M), are more concerned about the fat content in pet foods. The term used to bring up information at Google Scholar on this is "gonadectomy". As Deb put it in a conference presentation, gonadectomies, or altering cats, is the same as "plunging them into menopause". The research on this is very new, so not being taught in Vet schools.

I would agree that if the vet doesn't know enough to do a fructosamine immediately to ensure that it is diabetes you are facing, and not other diseases that can also raise glucose levels, you should be seeking out a cat only vet for a second opinion.

We are finding that the best possible insulin you can use on a cat is Lantus, (aka Glargine), as it allows your cat to stay 'within range' 24/7, therefore not have to worry about degeneration of body organs, etc., so your cat's life expectancy should remain a good long one. Our boy is facing his 19th year this year and most of it has been off insulin.

Lantus/Glargine has to be augmented with what is called a "bolus" short term insulin to cover carbohydrates that are eaten by other species, but this is not necessary for cats.

There is a lot of information on this subject at http://tamingthecurve.blogspot.com/ You will see that feline appropriate grains are the least concern after ensuring the cat has enough muscle meat protein.

HTH.....
[Last edited Apr 30, 2010 3:48 PM CST]
Quote | Post #201187 (5)
ImageSunshines2day
Jul 12, 2010 10:08 PM CST
Name: Sunshines2day
Lubbock Texas
I'd like to learn more about about the best diet choices of manufactured foods and types of insulin and factors involved in choosing an appropriate diet and insulin for my cat.
When the student is ready......the teacher appears.

ImageAYankeeCat
Jul 31, 2010 6:09 AM CST
Name: Memory Russell
SW Connecticut
Can we have an update on how your cat is doing and what kind of diet you are giving him?
ivyplantsnyc
Aug 27, 2010 12:44 AM CST
Name: Ivy T
Manhattan, New York
Good morning all, I have been waiting for news on Sedric also.
Now, I am experiencing a problem about my kitty too. This is keeping me awake way past my bed time. It's 2:45 am.
I have a question about cat scratch fever. I took Torrie who is 10 years old and a indoor cat for a check up. While the Vet was looking at her teeth because she needs a cleaning, she asked me if Torrie ever had a FeBart test. I replied as far as I know, she never had such a test. Today her results came back positive. Has anyone experienced using the antibiotic for 21 days called Zithromax in oral paste form?. This will cost $44.00 and I believe that to catch Torrie to give her this medicine will be very difficult. I have bought many tubes of various flavored supplements for her diet that she refuses to accept. I was told that I may be able to take a prescription to my pharmacist for the human medicine in pill form. What do you do if she will not take the medicine because she hides as soon as I walk in the door?. She can not have her teeth cleaned without the test. I do not have a small room to contain her for 21 days. I also have no idea how much the pill form will be which will be more than the paste. This is so distressing. Any help will be appreciated.
Thank you,
Ivy - Torriesmom
Pause for Paws.
ImageMaridell
Aug 27, 2010 4:00 PM CST
Name: Maridell
Sioux City IA
enjoy the moment
I'm so sorry for you and Torrie! We had a kitty (no longer with us) that required pills every day and I remember some days having to force her out from under the bed and basically sit on her - hold the top of her head with one hand and pry the jaw open with the other hand - then stick that pill down far as possible so she would not spit it out. There was no getting her to eat it hidden in something else at all! But we kept her feeling good (with insulin shots also) for 6 years.

If you put the paste on your Torries paw...she will eventually lick it off as part of cleaning herself? We have done that with our new kitties that did not like the hairball treatment.

My thoughts are with you...sorry you were up so late, we all know how distressing our fur-babies health can be.
ImageAYankeeCat
Aug 27, 2010 4:58 PM CST
Name: Memory Russell
SW Connecticut
As far as cleaning Torrie's teeth goes. If Torrie's teeth are strong and healthy and just covered with tarter - you may be able to clean them yourself and save the danger of an anesthetic. This all depends on whether she will chew on some meaty RAW bones. My cats absolutely love raw rabbit and the rib bones are soft so that is a good start. Raw chicken necks are also really safe to try. The gnawing on the bones and connective tissue scrapes the tarter off the teeth. That tarter is fairly soft and sometimes you can just flick it off with your thumbnail for starters. My cats will never, ever need to have their teeth cleaned because they get raw, meaty bones. This is very controversial and I have no medical training - so consider the source. There is lots of information on the internet about raw feeding cats and I fed mine raw meat for two years and they absolutely love it. We are on a meat canned diet at the moment - but for them, Sunday morning will still be chicken leg Sunday and when they get done with the raw chicken leg - there is nothing left and their teeth are sparkling clean. My guys have strong teeth to start with - chewing on raw bones could cause teeth problems - I just want you to know that.
ivyplantsnyc
Aug 27, 2010 11:13 PM CST
Name: Ivy T
Manhattan, New York
Putting a paste or gel will not work with Torrie. She will let it stay on her fur no matter where it landed even for days until I get tired of looking at her. This is the only cat that will not clean herself off when I put something on her to help her with hairballs and constipation etc. Since she does not like to be held or touched because of abuse as a tiny kitten, I can not look in her mouth at her teeth. As for raw food and bones, Torrie will not eat any type of raw or cooked meaty bones. I know because I tried it when she was sick trying to stimulate her appetite. She eats cheap dry food, and dislikes the expensive healthy stuff. Imagine trying to keep her fed for 10 years and changing the brand every so often because she won't eat. My fur child is killing me.
Pause for Paws.
ImageAYankeeCat
Aug 28, 2010 9:25 AM CST
Name: Memory Russell
SW Connecticut
You so have my sympathy. She is so lucky you are her mom.
ImageMaridell
Aug 28, 2010 1:40 PM CST
Name: Maridell
Sioux City IA
enjoy the moment
You do have a difficult kitty on your hands!
ImageStephGTx
Aug 30, 2010 7:48 PM CST
Name: Stephanie Gonzales
Texas
What does FeBart have to do with getting a dental on her? Has she been sick lately?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
ImageSunshines2day
Aug 30, 2010 8:02 PM CST
Name: Sunshines2day
Lubbock Texas
maybe too anemic?
When the student is ready......the teacher appears.

ImageStephGTx
Aug 30, 2010 8:08 PM CST
Name: Stephanie Gonzales
Texas
That was the only thing I could think of too, but I wasn't sure.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
ImageSunshines2day
Aug 30, 2010 8:13 PM CST
Name: Sunshines2day
Lubbock Texas
are the Steph that traded me the Vitex? It's grown to 2 feet high.
When the student is ready......the teacher appears.

[Last edited Aug 30, 2010 8:14 PM CST]
Quote | Post #385013 (17)
ImageStephGTx
Aug 30, 2010 8:18 PM CST
Name: Stephanie Gonzales
Texas
Yes Mam. How are you? I'm glad it's doing well. The purple ice plant you sent me just keeps bloomin' it's head off. I love it Lovey dubby
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
ImageSunshines2day
Aug 30, 2010 8:24 PM CST
Name: Sunshines2day
Lubbock Texas
I'm well and hope you are too. Did you send hosta too? I've got lots of hosta growing. Glad to see you over here.
When the student is ready......the teacher appears.

ivyplantsnyc
Aug 30, 2010 11:21 PM CST
Name: Ivy T
Manhattan, New York
The FeBart test was done after I made an appointment to take her for a cleaning at the end of the year. I declined the FeBart test ($55.00) in the beginning because I did not believe it was necessary. I was told that in order for her to stay in the clinic for her surgery, that particular test must be done too. So, at the suggestion of the clinic, I bought her in once again for the blood test and it came back positive. I was questioned about what the scratch marks she makes on my skin look like etc. Since I have a serious illness, (Non-hodgkins lymphoma and respiratory issues) the Vet and reading material says that cat scratch fever it can be passed back and forth between us and in order to stay in their clinic this test must be done because there are other pets that are treated and board there. Then I see the awful photos of cat Bartonella diseases which include oral , respiratory, ocuclar, intestinal and other parts of the body that could be affected like the heart all which is transmitted by fleas and ticks. Since her origins are unknown, I felt that I do not want to lose her to something that I could with the best of my ability prevent or cure. That is the reason for my search for information. The last time that she was at the Vet was over 5 years ago when she slashed the doctor's face. I was to embarrassed to take her back. I finally found someplace else and thought that she was over due for a check up. She has never been sick to the point where I had to forcibly administer medicine in 10 years.
Pause for Paws.

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